Why do Deists seem less likely to congregate than Theists?

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Deist churches don't seem to be wide spread (although they exist), and I'm not sure any Deist churches existed back when the US founding fathers were around.

Why have Deists been less inclinded to form churches and to congregate than many theists? Deists seem similar to athiests in this way.

Other nature based religions like Pagans and Wiccans seem historically to have congregated (and still do).

Is there something unique in the Deist mentality which makes them unique (in this way) as a religion?

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Maybe they just don't have anything to talk about.

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Re: Why do Deists seem less likely to congregate than Theist

rosborne979 wrote:

Why have Deists been less inclinded to form churches and to congregate than many theists? Deists seem similar to athiests in this way.

Deists don't by into the supranatural as many Pagan religions do. Their beliefs don't really fit with with the concept of "oragnized religion" very well either.

From the Religous Tolerance WWW site:

Deism:
Beliefs and Practices:
- Deists base their belief in the existence of God on their observations of design found throughout nature. The Discovery Institute in Seattle, WA share this belief and developed their theory of Intelligent Design as an alternative theory of origins to compete with Creationism and Evolution.
- Most Deists believe that God created the universe, "wound it up" and then disassociated himself from his creation. Some refer to Deists as believing in a God who acts as an absentee landlord or a blind watchmaker. A few Deists believe that God still intervenes in human affairs from time to time.
- They do not view God as an entity in human form.
- They believe that one cannot access God through any organized religion, set of beliefs, rituals, sacraments or other practice.
- God has not selected a chosen people (e.g. Jews or Christians) to be the recipients of any special revelation or gifts.
- Deists deny the existence of the Trinity as conceived by Christians. They often view Jesus as a philosopher, rabbi, teacher and healer, but not as the Son of God.
- They believe that miracles do not happen. The "world operates by natural and self-sustaining laws of the creator."
- A practical morality can be derived from reason without the need to appeal to religious revelation and church dogma. "Most Deists believe humans are too innately noble to require supernatural coercion and threats of eternal damnation to behave morally."
- Most Deists view God as having departed from nature. Thus, prayer makes no sense to them. However, some pray to express their appreciation to God for his works. The latter generally do not ask for special privileges, or try to assess the will of God through prayer, or ask God to perform miracles.
- Most Deists do not actively evangelize the public.

So what is there to organize or build a church for? You can't really "observe nature" from inside a building and if they want to study some aspect of nature in texts they can go to a library. Very Happy

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The Unitarian Fellowship, I think, is the largest deist group in this country. It provides a social outlet for non-religious people who still feel the need for the support of a "church-like" group.

But I would suggest that most deists are well-educated, self reliant people who simply don't need to group with others in that way. They probably prefer social groups based on common interests - gardening, literature, travel clubs - rather than those based on beliefs of any kind. I think they represent the very cream of our society, both intellectually and economically, and have the capacity within themselves to cope with life's adversities using their own resources.

Jack

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Re: Why do Deists seem less likely to congregate than Theist

fishin wrote:

rosborne979 wrote:
Why have Deists been less inclinded to form churches and to congregate than many theists? Deists seem similar to athiests in this way.

Deists don't by into the supranatural as many Pagan religions do.

Supranatural?

I guess I don't know much about Pagan religions or how they are different from Deists.

Here is the only Deist Church I found on the web.

It's almost amazing that Deism survives at all since there is minimal organizational and promotional components to it. Atheism seems like a sort of natural anti-response to theism, so I can see why it would endure. But Deism seems like a benign, non-perpetuating religion.

Was it different in the 1700'? Was it more organized back then?

It also seems like a fairly sophisticated belief structure. Simple and elegant, just one step more theistic than agnosticism.

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eltejano wrote:

The Unitarian Fellowship, I think, is the largest deist group in this country. It provides a social outlet for non-religious people who still feel the need for the support of a "church-like" group.

I don't think Unitarians consider themselves Deists. Unitarians tend to be a sort of conglomerate of multiple religions. Deists could easily be part of the group, but the group as a whole wouldn't call itself Deist.

eltejano wrote:

But I would suggest that most deists are well-educated, self reliant people who simply don't need to group with others in that way. They probably prefer social groups based on common interests - gardening, literature, travel clubs - rather than those based on beliefs of any kind. I think they represent the very cream of our society, both intellectually and economically, and have the capacity within themselves to cope with life's adversities using their own resources. -Jack

It sounds like you're longing to be a Deist Smile

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Re: Why do Deists seem less likely to congregate than Theist

rosborne979 wrote:

fishin wrote:
rosborne979 wrote:
Why have Deists been less inclinded to form churches and to congregate than many theists? Deists seem similar to athiests in this way.

Deists don't by into the supranatural as many Pagan religions do.

Supranatural?

I guess I don't know much about Pagan religions or how they are different from Deists.

Deists tend to fall into two categories
- God existed, created the universe and then ceased to exist or...
- God existed, created the universe and left it to run itself and sits off to the side and watches.

Pagans don't accept the idea that there is any one God. In many/most Pagan religions "God" is the combined "energy" of all that exists in the universe. There are "practices" that they believe allows them to "channel" that energy - that leads to the concepts of people having "gifts" which allow them to become "seers", "healers", "empaths", etc... It also gets into the whole Karma, reincarnation, spells, magik, etc.. aspects.

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roger wrote:

Maybe they just don't have anything to talk about.

hehehehehehehehehehehehe . . .

"God ain't here, is he?"

"Nope."

"Ain't been around since creation, huh?"

"I 'spect not."

"OK, then . . . see ya next week."

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Quote:

It sounds like you're longing to be a Deist

If I ever became disenchanted with christianity, that would be my first choice - and I COULD be one, see, 'cause Im smarter than those cretins at church! Laughing

It seems like a calm, sensible, logical, reasonable postion to take - in sharp contrast to the screaming crusaders on either side of the issue. I think some people just have an extremist personality by nature - they are intense about everything they do and believe. Such folks can certainly find a home in christianity, and atheism is made to order for them as well, but they would not find deism satisfying - not enough adrenalin-pumping action!

It seems like those action-types are disproportionally represented on the web, doesn't it?

Jack

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I can understand and respect atheism, agnosticism, deism - but why in the world would anyone want to be a "pagan," for heavens sake? That's just nuts, as Setanta might say, "silliness" - pure rebellion and nothing more!

I speak fluent spanish and volunteer as an english teacher in a mexican baptist mission and I see a lot of that among the indians from the economically-depressed villages of the Sierra Madre - witches, herbal potions, vexes, curses, spells. They are completely ignorant and have an excuse - but an educated american believing such nonsense? C'mon!! They're like my son - they don't believe that garbage they just enjoy shocking people.

Jack

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eltejano wrote:

I can understand and respect atheism, agnosticism, deism - but why in the world would anyone want to be a "pagan," for heavens sake? That's just nuts, as Setanta might say, "silliness" - pure rebellion and nothing more!

Actually, the Pagan view was sounding pretty good to me until the mention of magic and such. I like the idea of Spinoza's god myself.

eltejano wrote:

I speak fluent spanish and volunteer as an english teacher in a mexican baptist mission and I see a lot of that among the indians from the economically-depressed villages of the Sierra Madre - witches, herbal potions, vexes, curses, spells.

Are you talking about Pagans or Catholics or people in general?

Half the people in office cubicles across the country believe in herbal potions, magnetic insoles, ionic bracelets, crystal therapy and pills for everything. I'm not sure there's much difference. Catholics believe in demons and exorcism. How is that so different from witches and spells?

There are two camps. The camp that believes in magic and the one that doesn't.

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Tie a yellow ribbon 'round the old oak tree.

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it seems to me that deists are more independent thinkers, and that other religions rely on herd mentality etc..

just tossin out ideas

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BBB
Maybe people would understand each other better if they acknowledged that there is a huge difference between spirituality and dogma. Organized religion is based on dogma. Dogma is destructive.

BBB

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That's a pretty huge dogma in your avatar

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neologist

neologist wrote:

That's a pretty huge dogma in your avatar

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Quote:

Catholics believe in demons and exorcism. How is that so different from witches and spells?

I knew someone would ask that obvious question. Smile

The short answer is that the demons enjoy a certain degree of credibilty, because their existence is documented in the Bible. Whether biblical "documentation" has any validity is another issue. It has been perceived as such in western civilization.

Some of the mexican immigrants that I work with, from certian parts of Mexico, have a belief system that seems to be a curious mixture of catholicism and paganism. I think that may be the result of the spanish missionaries' willingness to condone some these indigenous practices and beliefs as long as their charges accepted the basic christian message. I really haven't made any effort to really study this in any kind of serious way, but I run into it. My job is to teach english to them, but I do use christian materials to that end - being a baptist-funded mission and all.

Jack

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eltejano wrote:

Quote:
Catholics believe in demons and exorcism. How is that so different from witches and spells?

I knew someone would ask that obvious question. The short answer is that the demons enjoy a certain degree of credibilty, because their existence is documented in the Bible.

Oh stop it. Just listen to yourself. "Demons enjoy a certain degree of credibility"... come on.

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eltejano wrote:

I see a lot of that among the indians from the economically-depressed villages of the Sierra Madre - witches, herbal potions, vexes, curses, spells. They are completely ignorant and have an excuse - but an educated american believing such nonsense?

I agree. Why oh why would an educated American believe in such nonsense as herbal potions(abortive no less), and curses, and witchcraft, and magic spells.

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eltejano wrote:

Some of the mexican immigrants that I work with, from certian parts of Mexico, have a belief system that seems to be a curious mixture of catholicism and paganism. I think that may be the result of the spanish missionaries' willingness to condone some these indigenous practices and beliefs as long as their charges accepted the basic christian message.

I'll bet there are more than a few baptists that do their own blending of pagan traditions and Christianity.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1983318#1983318

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2392632#2392632

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Why do Deists seem less likely to congregate than Theists?

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