Can a computer have a mind or think???

Fresco

LOL---I said that tongue in cheek---you know I can't emulate your inimitable style. You also know I'm way out of my little world here in the land of computer whizzs but seriously I would think it entirely within the realm of possibility to create a computer that will be able to conceptualize after being given that particular task about a certain subject after of course giving it a vast portion of the human experience in the form of pure memory.

As I said before ---- I'm merely attempting to think "outside the box".

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olko wrote:

Thomas wrote:

Quote:
They sure can[machines sure can think]. After all, I'm a machine and you're a machine, and we both think, don't we?

I disagree(not that it ofends me that I may be considered a machine),
but what is a definition of a machine?

There is no generally accepted definition -- just like there is no generally accepted definition of the term "to think". That's exactly the problem Alan Turing faced when he started the debate in his 1950 article Computing Machinery and Intelligence. His solution was to replace the ill-defined term "machine" with a mathematically precise concept that soon became famous as the "Turing machine". He also replaced the term "to think" by describing a well defined test -- later known as the "Turing test". Based on these definitions, he claims that machines can think in principle, and I agree with him.

olko wrote:

- a machine, according to Searle(phrofessor of philosophy of mind), is a thing that has inputs and outputs and that gives expected results (if inputs are rightly given to a machine; thoough, otherwise, if inputs are not properly input, the machine will hung up)

So if I expect my computer to work probably and it doesn't because its operating system isfull of annoying but non-fatal bugs, that makes it a non-machine? If so, I doubt that this concept improves on Turing's.

olko wrote:

moreover, illogical programation or 'jumps', inputs will cause that a machine will not recognize any inputs at all; And as a result it will not 'response'(work).

Neither will a human with a sufficiently bad defect in the way his genes have programmed him.

olko wrote:

We, humans, however, can think and jumps to conclusions at 'random'; And that is exactly why we make a mistakes and machine does not!!!

Not true. Just overclock your processor and watch the interesting things that will happen when it overheats.

olko wrote:

Another thing, if we where machines - which presupposes that we would be expected certain outputs and functions at certain inputs- how could you explain to me the fact that we sometime get unexpained 'allighments', inspirations from somewhere we do not even know?

As noted above, I disagree with your premise. I believe your (and Searle's) definition of a machine is wrong at best and meaningless at worst, so I can't accept your conclusions about what machines can or can't do.

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I think, therefore I am.

Corollary: I am, therefore I think.

Such as it is, everything that is thinks.

You can't stop the universe from thinking.

I'm unable to disprove that a rock thinks about one particular thing or
another.

There are so many rocks in the universe, of such great variety, not
infinite but pretty close. Can we assume to know them all? At a glance!?

Centuries of experience, rocks are smart enough to ignore people.

Most people do not speak or think in English, therefore most rocks
probably won't either.

printf (granite++);

What is their experience, concept and abstraction of the universe?

Ask a pebble or sift some sand, keep looking and you might find an
answer someday. It's probably not in the way they wiggle.
Maybe it's in the way they sit.

One's presence by itself can speak volumes.

Strata. Tectonics. Gravity transistors. High-pressure crystal induction.
Yeah, it's Gaia, baby. Evolving higher molecules for a mineral way of life.

scanf(&sand);

Instead of demanding communication on my own terms, I'd rather help
the rocks and the sand do what they seem to do best. Lay on the beach.

Warmth. Sun. Peace and quiet. Rest.
It's only rock without much roll but I like it,
like it, yes I do.

Me, I'm just a machine within a machine.

Sandy days are ahead! Please pass the oil.

The ability to think is only justified
by the ability to appreciate.

Show me a rock that doesn't love the sun,
and I'll show you dirt.

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It's a heart that perceives the mind. Since a computer does not have a heart and can never have one, it can never have a mind of its own but it can just process information. For the same reason, a computer cannot love, laugh, cry, hate, etcetera.

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Hi Beena,

Beena wrote:

It's a heart that perceives the mind.

Did you really mean a muscle that pumps blood perceives the mind, or were you generalizing the term "heart"?

Beena wrote:

Since a computer does not have a heart and can never have one, it can never have a mind of its own but it can just process information. For the same reason, a computer cannot love, laugh, cry, hate, etcetera.

What if we learn to apply self replicative coding techniques into a sufficiently dense transistor matrix, or a quantum matrix, and the information it begins to process is its own growth and survival. And what if it them learns to communicate with us. Will you still say it has no "heart"?

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rosborne979,
Okay, dear sorry, I didn't make the meaning clear. When I said heart. I meant the soul. It's the soul that perceives the mind. Soul is the depth of one's heart, not some physical entity, but in our world to identify individually, we just take soul to be us, every individual life that has consciousness.

And if as you say, "What if we learn to apply self replicative coding techniques into a sufficiently dense transistor matrix, or a quantum matrix, and the information it begins to process is its own growth and survival. And what if it them learns to communicate with us. Will you still say it has no "heart"?"

I would say that if we do that then the matrix will just process info but it will not start any communication of its own with us because for that it would need to understand that it exists as an independent entity and to know that it would need a physical heart, a soul and a mind that it would not possess and never could either. It means that once we have a physical heart and emotions, God must breathe His spirit, breath or mind in us. So if God did that, yes, the computer could think. I don't think I'm making sense. I got jet lag 'cause I just came to visit my India. They say that the number of hours time difference is how many days it takes for the jet lag to go away. About 12hrs time difference in Canada and India. Oh! Boy!

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Beena wrote:

I would say that if we do that then the matrix will just process info but it will not start any communication of its own with us because for that it would need to understand that it exists as an independent entity and to know that it would need a physical heart, a soul and a mind that it would not possess and never could either. It means that once we have a physical heart and emotions, God must breathe His spirit, breath or mind in us. So if God did that, yes, the computer could think. I don't think I'm making sense. I got jet lag 'cause I just came to visit my India. They say that the number of hours time difference is how many days it takes for the jet lag to go away. About 12hrs time difference in Canada and India. Oh! Boy!

Hi Beena, welcome back from your trip. Those long flights can be very tough.

I don't believe in God, or in the Soul (as a function of God's action). I do however believe in consciousness and self awareness, though I'm not certain what it takes to generate those two things.

It's apparent however that consciousness and self awareness appear naturally in sufficiently complex neural systems (human brains). Since this is obviously the case, it leads me to think that a sufficiently complex quantum/electrical system should also have the potential for self awareness.

Best Regards,

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Yes.

First we need to define "think." I define thinking as the abiltiy to independently gather information, and use that information to make a decision. Humans meet this definition, even though we are dependant upon food etc to keep us going, in the same manner that a computer relies upon electricity to keep going.

A computer gathers information (even if it is from humans) and uses that information to perform certain tasks. That is all that a human does. We take information from what we experience, arrange it and make sense of it, then do something because of that. Even the idea of reasoning - what many consider to be the most advanced performance of the human - is based on information we recieve from experience. The only reason a computer doesn't reason is becuase its range of information is limited.

Maybe humans also have a limited range of information, so we really don't know much of anything at all compared to something else.

A computer is just a human with less information in it.

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solorebellion

"A computer is just a human with less information in it."

Laughing

....and who tells a computer what constitutes "information" ?.....WE DO !

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And if it doesn't do it right we take a 16 pound sledgehammer and pound it into its component parts or,if we are mad enough,into parts of its component parts.

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rosborne979

I was talking about having jet lag in India, I'm not back in Canada yet. Need to go through another jet lag then.

And self awareness cannot be there unless there is a soul because it's the soul that perceives the spirit or mind. So no matter dear how complicated the brain system might be, without a soul it will just perform and not be independent or feel that it exists!

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Beena wrote:

rosborne979

I was talking about having jet lag in India, I'm not back in Canada yet. Need to go through another jet lag then.

I hate long plane flights. I flew to Indonesia once. 26 hours in the air and 8 hours of layovers along the way. It was torture.

Beena wrote:

And self awareness cannot be there unless there is a soul because it's the soul that perceives the spirit or mind.

If you say so.

Beena wrote:

So no matter dear how complicated the brain system might be, without a soul it will just perform and not be independent or feel that it exists!

What do you think the soul is exactly, and why don't you think a machine can't have one (eventually)?

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Can a computer have a mind or think???

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