Please help: Have done research on Water Softener and still

Forums: Home Improvement
Email this Topic • Print this Page

So, I have a Hague softener that i bought on ebay and it has been nothing but problems. Several repairs and intermittent outages and problems with appliances require that I replace the unit. I live in Tampa, FL and have had several reps come to the house including the city water dept to test the water.

My hardness normally should be 15. At present the Hague unit is working and the hardness is anywhere between 3-5. However, I want to go ahead and replace the unit. I have heavy calcium build up on some of the appliances and know the unit is not functioning properly all the time.

Other factors:
3.7 Chlorine
PH 7.35
Turbidity .95

Size household: 2 Adults in 2300 Square foot home.
Assuming 32K unit would suffice.....

I would like to go with a standard unit that doesn't require using only the manufacturer's parts and labor (such as Kinetico, Culligan, etc...). Also, even though we have an RO unit for drinking from the kitchen sink, my wife would like to get a carbon filter to go with the softener.

I have included a link to a softener that seems to combine both a filter and tank but is $1,900 installed from local dealer. While the unit uses some fleck/autotrol/clack parts (I think), my concern is that the unit is very expensive and I am again locked into one supplier as I don't think it is a common design.

or
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=4kvxb2r

I spoke with Ohio Pure Water and he mentioned a "permanent" carbon filter which requires a separate and dedicated tank for the carbon. While the basic water softener was around $500, I would be spending around $1200 for a two tank system (one resin and one carbon)).

I am not thrilled with the concept of installation or doing the maintenance with the exception of adding salt to the unit.

My perfect scenario would be to have a local installer put in a unit for around $1,000 that includes carbon (assuming you think it is necessary) as well as a quality on demand valve(I think this is what you recommend) unit.

Is this unrealistic?

Please help as I am totally confused as to what should be my next move.......

Thanks in advance...

Topic Stats
Top Replies
Link to this Topic

Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,372 • Replies: 11

No top replies

Re: Please help: Have done research on Water Softener and st

atwnsw wrote:

My hardness normally should be 15. At present the Hague unit is working and the hardness is anywhere between 3-5. However, I want to go ahead and replace the unit. I have heavy calcium build up on some of the appliances and know the unit is not functioning properly all the time.

Other factors:
3.7 Chlorine
PH 7.35
Turbidity .95

Size household: 2 Adults in 2300 Square foot home.
Assuming 32K unit would suffice.....

3-5 gpg of hardness after the softener indicates to me that your Hague system is not working.

After looking at your test results and household needs I suggest the EcoWater ERR 3500

HTH ~

0 Replies

I answered your email to me but you didn't include or mention this picture and local dealer.

Any softener allowing 3-5 gpg of hardness get through it is not working.

That equipment the local dealer proposed is commonly called a combo or over under and it is not popular and they can be difficult to work on. I don't suggest them.

I also do not suggest the Autotrol 255 control valve or their Logix timer.

I doubt you'll find a local dealer to sell and install what you need for $1000. So since you don't want to do it yourself, your only choice is to buy online and spend some of the savings on a plumber or water treatment dealer to install it. I strongly suggest the Clack WS-1 control valve. As I said in my email, you must call me to go over correct sizing.

0 Replies

So... what did you end up doing?

0 Replies

At the moment, I haven't done anything. I am leaning towards the Clack WS-1 tank (32k grain) with a secondary tank with carbon backwash filter.

My only debate is with my wife. We went the 'cheap" avenue last time and are re-visiting a new softener within 3 years of the last unit. My biggest concern is the support/installation/maintenance.

If I buy it from Gary and I am not mechanically inclined, what happens if I need support. How difficult is to diagnose and repair problems over the phone? Who will do the maintenance on the softener?

I am not skilled and have never worked on pvc before. The good news is that I am replacing a unit instead of a clean install.

Finally, because of the different water in Pa, for example, would a softener need a different resin or different carbon for the city water in tampa.

In summary, I like the online prices but fear the service/maintenance.

So, I am undecided on how I am proceeding....

Does this make sense?

0 Replies

atwnsw wrote:

At the moment, I haven't done anything. I am leaning towards the Clack WS-1 tank (32k grain) with a secondary tank with carbon backwash filter.

My only debate is with my wife. We went the 'cheap" avenue last time and are re-visiting a new softener within 3 years of the last unit. My biggest concern is the support/installation/maintenance.

If I buy it from Gary and I am not mechanically inclined, what happens if I need support. How difficult is to diagnose and repair problems over the phone? Who will do the maintenance on the softener?

I am not skilled and have never worked on pvc before. The good news is that I am replacing a unit instead of a clean install.

Finally, because of the different water in Pa, for example, would a softener need a different resin or different carbon for the city water in tampa.

In summary, I like the online prices but fear the service/maintenance.

So, I am undecided on how I am proceeding....

Does this make sense?

In my best Bill Clinton voice: I feel your pain.

Your wife has a valid point.

I suggest you seek out a few local full service H2O companies and have them test your water for hardness, Ph and Iron.
Have them give you a detailed estimate that includes installation and projected maintenance cost (salt, re beds etc...)
Once you have a few estimates in hand sit down with your wife and make the decision.
Use information you have gleaned from the collection of fractured threads here on AK2.

Make sure you tell the appointment setter and the salesperson that comes to your home that you are not committing to purchase anything on the first visit and sign nothing.

That's what I would do if I were in your situation.

I hope that helps.

0 Replies

justalurker wrote:

Listen to your wife.

Get a comprehensive water test from an independent lab. It will cost you money BUT an independent lab has no agenda and is not trying to sell you water treatment equipment. Go to http://www.epa.gov/safewater/labs/index.html to locate a certified lab near you. This is a MUST DO because without it everything is a guess. A quickie water test from Sears or a water softener company won't be as accurate (and possibly not as competent) as from a certified independent lab.

If you're on a water system the water utility can supply you with the specs of the water AS IT LEAVES their facility but that is not necessarily representative of the water conditions at your water meter.

Hit the Yellow Pages and call at least three local water treatment pros. Make sure you call at least one of the big dogs like Kinetico or Culligan for comparison and at least a couple independent pros. DON'T TELL THEM YOU HAD YOUR WATER TESTED.

Give each an opportunity to offer suggestions and provide you with a quote to meet your water treatment needs. IGNORE ANY THAT DON'T TEST YOUR WATER THEMSELVES as they can't speak intelligently to water treatment without knowing what needs to be treated.

Ask lots of questions. Softening the entire house or just the water heater (bad idea)? Warranty, parts & labor or just parts, how long and on exactly what? Install, permits required, licensed plumber? Routine maintenance and costs? Do they stock parts? Response time for emergency (water leak) calls? If they don't explain things to your satisfaction that is a good indicator of how you'll be treated after the sale.

After they've gone use your water test to compare with their's. Are all your treatment needs being addressed?

<b>Ask your neighbors if they have any water treatment experience. They might tell you who's good or who to avoid</b>.

Come back here and post the specific recommendations and hardware components with the costs and we'll give you our opinions.

You'll spend more with a local water treatment pro but you'll get more.

Free advice is worth what you pay for it :wink:

What he said Cool

0 Replies

atwnsw wrote:

At the moment, I haven't done anything. I am leaning towards the Clack WS-1 tank (32k grain) with a secondary tank with carbon backwash filter.

There isn't a better control valve on the market.

atwnsw wrote:

My only debate is with my wife. We went the 'cheap" avenue last time and are re-visiting a new softener within 3 years of the last unit. My biggest concern is the support/installation/maintenance.

There is no control valve easier or faster to repair and that was designed into it from the planning stage of its design.

atwnsw wrote:

If I buy it from Gary and I am not mechanically inclined, what happens if I need support. How difficult is to diagnose and repair problems over the phone? Who will do the maintenance on the softener?

There is no preventative maintenance on a Clack WS-1. When it needs repair you do it yourself with nothing more than a pair of channel lock pliers. Anyone with the desire and the pliers can totally rebuild one and have the water back on in less than 30 minutes. You buy from me you get explicit printed instructions with pictures.
I troubleshoot in posts, email and phone calls. Troubleshooting on the phone is easy. I've been doing it for 20 years. I do the same with well water pumps although I haven't sold them since the middle of 2005 when I shut down my local sales and service.

atwnsw wrote:

I am not skilled and have never worked on pvc before. The good news is that I am replacing a unit instead of a clean install.

Then for $15 worth of PVC parts practice for half an hour or hire a plumber to do the installation. You use cleaner in the fitting and on the tubing and apply a thin coating of cement to both and push the tubing into the fitting and twist it some and hold it for a number of seconds and it's done.

atwnsw wrote:

Finally, because of the different water in Pa, for example, would a softener need a different resin or different carbon for the city water in tampa.

Hardness is hardness everywhere, the same resin is used all over the world and I have sold softeners in all of the lower 48 states. All have used the same resin. The same applies to carbon. I've also sold softeners to people in the Tampa area.

atwnsw wrote:

In summary, I like the online prices but fear the service/maintenance.

There's nothing to fear but fear itself.

0 Replies

Gary Slusser wrote:

There's nothing to fear but fear itself.

There are many instances when it is prudent to fear fear... that's why it can be a verb and a noun.

0 Replies

Re: Please help: Have done research on Water Softener and st
atwnsw,

After looking at your test results and household needs I suggest the EcoWater ERR 3500

There isn't a better complete softener on the market.

HTH ~

0 Replies

justalurker wrote:

Listen to your wife.

She hasn't done any research...

justalurker wrote:

Get a comprehensive water test from an independent lab. It will cost you money BUT an independent lab has no agenda and is not trying to sell you water treatment equipment.

Define "comprehensive".

justalurker wrote:

Go to http://www.epa.gov/safewater/labs/index.html to locate a certified lab near you. This is a MUST DO because without it everything is a guess. A quickie water test from Sears or a water softener company won't be as accurate (and possibly not as competent) as from a certified independent lab.

I disagree. Labs SELL water tests, and they have no shame when it comes to their pricing; I used Hach Co test kits and reagents for 20 years, and I know my wholesale costs and most labs use the same equipment from Hach and get a much lower price than me. And I know what they charge for their tests because many people send me copies of their tests and I ask the price they paid. They're ripoff prices.

justalurker wrote:

If you're on a water system the water utility can supply you with the specs of the water AS IT LEAVES their facility but that is not necessarily representative of the water conditions at your water meter.

So you mistakenly think the water gets harder or the iron content increases by the time it gets to 'your house'. LOL Not in my 20 years experience but... In your opinion, how's that possible?

justalurker wrote:

Hit the Yellow Pages and call at least three local water treatment pros. Make sure you call at least one of the big dogs like Kinetico or Culligan for comparison and at least a couple independent pros. DON'T TELL THEM YOU HAD YOUR WATER TESTED.

The key here is the water quality in a 'city water' system usually changes from time to time due to maintenance etc.. IMO this water test advice is bad advice.

People reading this are on the internet, they are researching, they probably see the prices mentioned of Culligan and KINETICO, Rainsoft and Ecowater and the rest of the national brands. Why would they want to contact dealers they have no interest in buying from? IOWs, why should they waste their time?

And starting out by LYING is supposed to be a good thing!

justalurker wrote:

Give each an opportunity to offer suggestions and provide you with a quote to meet your water treatment needs. IGNORE ANY THAT DON'T TEST YOUR WATER THEMSELVES as they can't speak intelligently to water treatment without knowing what needs to be treated.

That's nothing more than self serving BS! I didn't test your city water before you installed the softener you bought from me. And you say it worked/works fine despite me.

justalurker wrote:

Ask lots of questions. Softening the entire house or just the water heater (bad idea)? Warranty, parts & labor or just parts, how long and on exactly what? Install, permits required, licensed plumber? Routine maintenance and costs? Do they stock parts? Response time for emergency (water leak) calls? If they don't explain things to your satisfaction that is a good indicator of how you'll be treated after the sale.

In 20 years of service calls, thousands of emails and tens of thousands of posts I read, I've heard of very few water softener leaks; including by-pass valves that you question the reliability of.

What are your credentials in water treatment or water softening?

H2O_MAN wrote:

After they've gone use your water test to compare with their's. Are all your treatment needs being addressed?

And if due to maintenance etc. the water company sent harder or less hard water now than when the water tests were done....

justalurker wrote:

<b>Ask your neighbors if they have any water treatment experience. They might tell you who's good or who to avoid</b>.

Personally I question a person's decision making process when they make decisions based on gossip and people that gossip.

justalurker wrote:

You'll spend more with a local water treatment pro but you'll get more.

More what and compared to what or whom?

The question should be, will you get softer water?

Isn't that what this is supposed to be about, having soft water.

Now justalurker, you and I know you aren't about that but the people reading this don't know it.

justalurker wrote:

Free advice is worth what you pay for it :wink:

Using bad advice comes with a cost paid by those using the bad advice.

0 Replies

Re: Please help: Have done research on Water Softener and st

H2O_MAN wrote:

atwnsw,

After looking at your test results and household needs I suggest the EcoWater ERR 3500

There isn't a better complete softener on the market.

HTH ~

That's better Razz

0 Replies

Please help: Have done research on Water Softener and still

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know