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Fury over Israeli marriage law

 
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2003 12:24 pm
au, I am cool with Israelis/Israeli government and Palestinians. That seems specific enough. Also, I don't want to see anyone bow out of the discussion. That seems a bit drastic.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2003 12:59 pm
hobitbob
Quote:
This is the way to more violence, not less.


Do you think this will in any way effect the level of violence.
By the way I should note the law is only in effect for one year. If it were to be extended it must be voted on at that time. Read it in an Israeli newspaper.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2003 01:53 pm
au1929 wrote:
hobitbob
Quote:
This is the way to more violence, not less.


Do you think this will in any way effect the level of violence.
By the way I should note the law is only in effect for one year. If it were to be extended it must be voted on at that time. Read it in an Israeli newspaper.


Yes, I think this will cause violence to escalate on both sides. The requirement for a yearly vote increases my suspician tha tthis is an attempt to see how far the government can "push" things without much dissent. I read about this in Ha'aretz.
I'm curious, do you see any moral difference between Palestinian violence that kills innocents and Israeli violence, that kills innocents? I don't.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2003 01:54 pm
Intent
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hobitbob
 
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Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2003 01:56 pm
I would disagree. I think that both sides knowingly use tactics that will cause the most civillian casualties as a way of spreading fear.
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cavfancier
 
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Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2003 01:58 pm
Intent is a terribly hard thing to decipher, and I have a feeling that intent is rampant on both sides.
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dyslexia
 
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Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2003 02:00 pm
"intent" is demonstrated by the increasing construction of settlements.
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au1929
 
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Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2003 02:01 pm
hobitbob
Quote:
I'm curious, do you see any moral difference between Palestinian violence that kills innocents and Israeli violence, that kills innocents? I don't.


That is a completely different subject. But Craven gave you the answer in one word. Intent.
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Craven de Kere
 
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Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2003 02:01 pm
dys,

But that does not say anything about the difference between the deaths of innocents.
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Craven de Kere
 
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Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2003 02:05 pm
hobitbob wrote:
I would disagree. I think that both sides knowingly use tactics that will cause the most civillian casualties as a way of spreading fear.


Sometimes I think IDF tactics are so horribly miscalculated that they seem intentional. But nevertheless your statement is equivocal.

The IDF could easily cause more damage. Palestinian militants could not increase their number of muders by much.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2003 02:17 pm
hobitbob
The Palestinians target civilians and use bombs that are rigged to kill and wound as many innocents as possible. While the Israeli's attack sources of terrorism. How can you possibly equate the two? Specifically the Palestinians target civilians while the Israeli's attempt to avoid them. In addition the Palestinian militants hide among the populace knowing full well that they will suffer casualties, in fact I believe inviting them. It is good Pr.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2003 02:20 pm
au,

I agree with your sentiment but disagree that Isreal avoids killing civillians. At best they recklessly use methods they know will kill them.

As to Palestinians "inviting" the deaths I think that's as accurate as saying that hard-line Israeli's welcome the terror.

The deaths of their own people help the extremists on boths sides but I'd not go so far as to say that they consciously welcome them.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2003 02:22 pm
craven I do feel that increased construction of settlements (in violation go the "road map") is intended to be provocation against a population that has little recourse other than "terrorist acts"
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2003 02:33 pm
I disagree. I think it's a calculated land grab and the fact that it infuriates Palestinians is just icing on the cake.
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dyslexia
 
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Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2003 02:51 pm
good point
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au1929
 
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Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2003 02:54 pm
Since the discussion seem to have expanded what do you think of the fence Israel is in the process of building?
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dyslexia
 
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Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2003 03:26 pm
I think it would be a good idea and i would support it IF it did not intrude into palestine terrority. I would also suggest that UN or other international peace keepers man the fence but that would just be a bonus.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2003 04:20 pm
I like the idea of the fence. I dislike the duplicity of using it to extend Isreal's borders. It is built with a substantial "buffer zone" with much of it on the Palestinian side and it stretches out to embrace some of the settlements on Palestinian land.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Aug, 2003 12:07 am
I dislike the idea of the fence, because it is yet another way for the Israeli govt. to marginalize the Palestinians. I recall a report on NPR that discussed how Palestinians, the majority of whom work in Israel, are unable to actually make it to work with any regularity due to the amount of time lost at checkpoints, etc...
Again, I lay much of the blame at the feet of Sharon. The man is a thug and a bully, who wishes for peace as much as my cat wishes for vegetables! Smile
Another complicating factor lies in the relationship between Israeli hard liners and the american evangelicals, who don't want to see a peace accord succeed. They need strife,and , to be honest, the death of all of the Jews for their little apocalypse to take place. Rolling Eyes Tom Delay was just over there this week doing his best to undermine any peace progress.

BTW: Has anyone else noticed that "spellcheck" misspells their posts?
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Aug, 2003 07:44 am
August 1, 2003, 9:10 a.m.
When Bad Neighbors Require Good Fences
Facts on the ground in the Mideast.

[]
[] he border security fence is comprised of many sections totaling scores of miles. Some sections are concrete, others sheet metal. The barrier is three layers deep in parts, fifteen feet high and surrounded by razor wire. The area around it is lit by spotlights, monitored by cameras, motion detectors and magnetic sensors, and patrolled by armed guards with attack dogs.
But enough about our border with Mexico, let's talk about Israel.
A year ago the Israeli cabinet approved construction of a security fence on the border with the Palestinian Authority. The first phase of the project, dubbed "Another Way," was completed this week, and covers a total of 150km. Other phases of the project are in various stages of execution. When completed, the security barrier will demarcate nearly the entire border between Israel and the purported Palestinian state, and therein lies a problem.

posted article at
http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins080103.asp
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