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Wed 30 Jul, 2003 03:53 pm
Quote:By Nick Thorpe
BBC correspondent in Jerusalem
Israeli and international human rights groups have sharply criticised a proposed new law making it impossible for Palestinians to gain Israeli citizenship through marriage.
Supporters say it is necessary for security reasons and to maintain the Jewish character of the state of Israel.
Critics say the law - now before the Israeli parliament, the Knesset - is racist.
Until now, the Israeli interior minister has had the final say on whether Palestinians who marry Israeli citizens can receive citizenship and make a home in Israel.
According to the government, 16,000 applications were approved in the past decade after intense security checks.
The vast majority were Palestinians - from the occupied territories in the West Bank and Gaza - who married Arab-Israelis, who make up about 20% of the population of Israel.
The new nationality and entry into Israel law will prevent the approval of any future or pending applications.
In practice this means that such couples must either separate or live with their children outside Israel.
The legislation applies only to Palestinians. Foreigners from other countries will still be able to settle here.
The government's justification of the law is the security situation. According to official statistics, 20 people involved in terror attacks entered the country in this category.
Interior Minister Avraham Poraz said he welcomed the proposed bill - reluctantly.
"I wish we didn't need this law, I'm not thrilled with it, but there was a government decision and I must follow it," he said.
Human rights groups insist that some public statements of the law's supporters prove that the real reason is to maintain the predominantly Jewish character of Israel.
They are worried that this is being eroded by the fact that Arabs usually have more children.
Arab members of the Knesset reacted angrily to the proposals.
"Do you want us to capitulate and let you pass an inhumane law?" shouted MK Ahmed Tibi to other members.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/3111727.stm
Published: 2003/07/30 20:14:19 GMT
I understand the Israelis when they say that Israel needs to preserve their jewish character. As well as their heritage.
that's the same argument the KKK uses "on behalf" of "caucasians"
frolic sure has a hard-on for Israeli-Palestinian issues, with a clear bias towards the Palestinians. The establishment of Israel was based on the idea of having a Jewish state, post WWII, and claim to that small piece of useless desert is based on biblical prophecy. There can be no logic applied to how they decide to run and protect their claim to their country, and surrounded by enemies, I personally think that this law being passed is a reluctant but self-protective move. Sadly, religion and politics still go hand in hand in the Middle East. Oh, and America as well...just thinking of Dubya's proposal to outlaw gay marriage....
Is the Israeli bill wrong, morally? Yes indeedy. Is it currently necessary? Yes indeedy as well, IMO.
Violet Lake wrote:that's the same argument the KKK uses "on behalf" of "caucasians"
Not only the KKK. In Nazi Germany it was not allowed to have mixed marriages.
Israel is in a totally different situation then the ones you guys listed.
Israel is sorrunded by 280 million Arabs who has a dying wish to see Israel be counqered and "Al-Quds" "libareted". Turning Israel into Palestine, turning Palestine into an Islamic state.
Anyway, here's some eye-candy for you guys;
Friday Sermons on Palestinian Authority Television
MEMRI
Mamahani wrote:Israel is in a totally different situation then the ones you guys listed.
Israel is sorrunded by 280 million Arabs who has a dying wish to see Israel be counqered and "Al-Quds" "libareted". Turning Israel into Palestine, turning Palestine into an Islamic state.
Anyway, here's some eye-candy for you guys;
Friday Sermons on Palestinian Authority Television
MEMRI
Its not like Arabs are born with this dying wish to 'drive those Jews into the sea'. And Israel does all the efforts to stimulate the hate and fear of their arab neigbours.
I do not in any way support this bill nor do I think it is needed, but I think it's important to note that Isreal's fears are not just a "culture", "heritage" or "race" issue and while I'm not too fond of the incessant "the Arabs want to drive Israeli's into the sea" mantra (to make that fair one would also have to mention that at several stages in these conflicts the majority of the Israelis supported the "transfer" or as otehrs call it the "ethnic cleansing" of Palestinians from "greater Israel") there is an actual existential threat posed to Israeli democracy.
Frankly, I am tired if people portraying Isreal as a weak nation in a sea of hateful Arabs, Isreal is long past the stage in which its existence was militarily threatened. But demographics are indeed a threat to Isreal.
If Isreal allows its population to become an Arab majority their democracy or national identity would have to be sacrificed.
I think these measures are unecessary and wrong. But it's not surprising given that many Palestinians actually call the womb of an Arab woman the greatest weapon they have against Isreal.
In short, it's a stupid bill. But it's a stupid conflict and stupidity abounds on both sides.
As Isreal once again proves to the world that being the victim of genocide is not proof against incipient fascism.
Blame the current government if you must, but not all Israelis support what is happening. I am with Craven on his thoughts. Stupidity abounds on both sides, ergo, neither side is right, and both are prone to 'fascist' tendencies.
Geez, I swear if you squint your eyes just so, trade a couple of place names and you've got another Nothern Ireland with British rules and laws all over again. It only took 300 years to finally have some semblance of peace between those warring parties.
Growing up in Canada with all the parental fallout from 'the troubles' I had no idea people called a white and black marriage mixed. I thought mixed unions were always religious, specifically catholic and proddies.
Will we ever learn from past mistakes.
This whole thing makes me sad.
Ceili
Frolic
Quote:Not only the KKK. In Nazi Germany it was not allowed to have mixed marriages.
The law has nothing to do with mixed marriages.
Frolic
Quote:Its not like Arabs are born with this dying wish to 'drive those Jews into the sea'. And Israel does all the efforts to stimulate the hate and fear of their arab neigbours.
The Arabs would like nothing better than to drive the Israeli's into the sea. They have tried several times starting with the day Israel was proclaimed a state. A little honesty on your part would be appreciated but frankly unexpected.
Ceili
I always thought that a French Canadian married to an English Canadian was considered a mixed marriage
Hi all, I may have a unique perspective here, which is why it is complicated for me to get involved in frolic's Israeli-Palestinian discussions. This is my cousin, ex-Mossad, and some excerpts from his books and articles:
http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/ostrovsky.html
And check this out from the Radio Islam site:
http://www.abbc.com/islam/english/terror/ostrov1.htm
The man loves the concept of Israel, but not the politics. Most of what I know about the situation, I learned from him. The last thing I heard about him was that he took the wife and family away from their home in Ottawa without any warning or forwarding address to the family. A few days later, their empty house was firebombed by unknown sources.
He is also a talented artist. Here you can see some of his prints, and read how he came to be inspired to paint:
http://www.victorostrovsky.com/bio.htm
The truth of the matter is that the maintenance of any religious/ethnic "character" smacks squarely against claims of "democracy," especially in light of the fact that twenty percent of Israel's population isn't Jewish. There have been examples of "character maintenance" in "Western" countries; one example is NAZI GERMANY, which attempted to maintain a racial "ARYAN CHARACTER." Is that who the Israelis are emulating?
InfraBlue
When the avowed goal of the people desiring entry and live in Israel is it's destruction what would you expect. In addition it was established as a Jewish homeland and should remain so.
au...
I grew up in the west, my city is about 100 years old. Most of the people I knew had their own version of mixed marriages, as I later discoverd.
I grew up in an immegrant neighbourhood. Everyone was a first generation or two away from the old country or province, aside from the native population. There were no overall pre-conceived notions held on most issues that haunt older locales. My family is Irish, so the whole 'orange and green mix' was my familliar ignorance.
I often have trouble understanding the bitter land disputes worldwide, because people up here don't have the historical, religious or cultural ties to property. We buy, sell or trade like there's no tommorow.
Ceili
That Jewish homeland was established by emigrant Europeans in a land populated by non-Jews.
I would have expected the Zionists to learn from the depths of depravity to which nationalism lead in Europe to strive for a non-nationalistic, non-exclusivist/chauvinist homeland. Instead, the Zionists ran from the ghettos of Europe to their mega-ghetto by the sea in Palestine.
au1929 wrote:Frolic
Quote:Its not like Arabs are born with this dying wish to 'drive those Jews into the sea'. And Israel does all the efforts to stimulate the hate and fear of their arab neigbours.
The Arabs would like nothing better than to drive the Israeli's into the sea. They have tried several times starting with the day Israel was proclaimed a state. A little honesty on your part would be appreciated but frankly unexpected.
I aknowlegde that. I just stated the arabs arent born with their hate. Hate, xenofobia,.... are nurture, not nature.
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