Lifesource Water versus a 'salt' system

PASS


That is a high dollar carbon filter with a low end Fleck control valve on a fancy tank.
It is nothing more than a backwashing taste and odor / chlorine reduction filter.
You would still have very hard water with this system.
I would pass on this one.

Drop me an email and I will give you a few options that really work.

reply life source
I purchased the life source water filtration system olifn July 2006 and sorry that I did. I have gone back to using my Brita filters for drinking water and my showers certainly do not make my skin and hair feel softer as the rep had informed me it would.

Fleck 7000 SE
Hi guys (mainly h20_man), what do you think about the Fleck 7000 SE?

That plus the mediaguard KDF 55 is a total of about $1000 to order. From there I would pay a plumber to install it.

I saw a lot of mention of Fleck parts, and I think I saw someone mention a fleck system, but wasn't sure.

It will go in our garage, and even though I normally dont like industrial rugged looking things, this would fit in well next to our water heaters vs the clean pretty one like the ERR 3500 mentioned earlier from ECO.

Thanks for the advice, its really helpful. There just isn't much info online about water softners really.

PS: I had a home depot sales guy come to our house today, and he tried to sell me the 4k system. includes soap/shampoo for a year, blah blah.. Said it was the HDSFI by GE, some High Flow Package. But said "you wont be able to find it on the internet - if you call GE they will tell you to call us"... And the guy acted like my house was going to fall apart if I didn't get it installed within 24 hours practically.

Sorry about the rant, anyway, the GE came w/a prefilter, water softener, and then the reverse osmosis setup for the kitchen sink. Is that worth $4000 or do you think the Fleck 7000SE is any good?

I see you mentioned northstar and eco a lot, I sent out a few emails for quotes for those as well, but for some reason I liked the look of the filter/softener from Fleck so wanted to get your expert opinions.

Thanks for all the help - you guys really help a lot of people trying to research these things!

I use the Fleck 2510SE to upgrade existing RainSoft systems and they are excellent.
The 7000SE is of the same quality with more whistles and bells. It should serve you well.

rguice,

What kind of water are you dealing with? What is the reason given for applying the MediaGuard with KDF-55? I suppose you are on city water, would that be right?

The valves mentioned are good and should serve you well.

I am not familiar with Home Depot actually sending a sales rep to the home and offering systems for that much and all those benefits added on. At least they don't do that at our local store...to my knowledge. Most are cash and carry. I know that they train roofing and siding sales, flooring, etc., staff, but those really need to be on-sight. I'll check into that.

You can find almost anything on the internet...and then some.

Andy Christensen, CWS

I am on city water yes. But the water is bad. I think the hardness level was 16, and the other # was 266. Meaning there are a lot of undisolved solids in the water.

Honestly I'm not too sure what the KDF-55 is for, it looked like a nice water filter option so figured it wouldn't hurt since I don't plan on doing a reverse osmosis filter in the kitchen (unless you guys strongly suggest it).



As for home depot, I think its a new thing. I looked on their website for water softeners and it said I had to schedule someone to come out. They must have realized they could make a lot more money that way since everyone trusts them...

Thank you so much for the help. I assume I would just call a local plumber to get this stuff installed? We have a crazy setup in the garage w/1 solar water preheater, 1 regular, and lots of pipes everywhere so I am not looking to attempt it on my own

An efficient softener combined with an RO or distiller is what you need.
A whole house GAC filter would be nice ahead of the softener.

Let a pro install the system - shy away from HD's sub contracted plumbers.




KDF-55

A KDF-55 filter media consists of finely granulated copper and zinc alloys. The combination of these two alloys in the media allows the chemical reaction of redox (Oxidation-Reduction) to take place when water passes through the media. Redox involves the transfer of electrons between two molecules, changing these molecules into entirely different elements. In the KDF process, electrons are taken from harmful contaminants like chlorine and microorganisms. This loss of electrons changes contaminants into far less harmful, or even harmless, elements. For example, chlorine-- when it loses an electron in a redox reaction--is changed into the harmless, water-soluble chemical chloride. While there are several different KDF media, KDF-55 is designed to specifically remove or reduce chlorine, heavy metals, and microbiological contaminants.

Is the 2510 SE better?

I just looked at the price and the 7000 SE and 2510 SE are pretty much the same price. I see some small differneces, but the 7000 SE is actually a $20-$30 less then the 2510 SE. I just wanted to make sure that the 2510 wasn't simpler, but better. Its also possible that the 7000 SE is a newer model and in higher production so thats why its a little less.. Just wanted to make sure I get a good product.

Or are these things all pretty similar in quality and nothing to be too nit picky about? We are not assembling microchips here..

The 2510 is a heavy duty, high flow commercial grade control valve. The SE has simple electronic controls.
The only Fleck valve I install is the 2510SE. I use metered valves on all softeners.

The 7000SE is very much like the Clack WS-1 … very nice, but a little on the dainty side for my tastes.

Thanks, I think I'll go with the option you recommend then the 2510 SE

I called them asking about a $350 GAC that had carbon filter & something else, but they still recommended the KDF-55 tank thing for only $135 more.

They said that its basically a GAC w/no maint? Sound right?

Thanks man!

I have never used KDF, but I do use GAC often.
GAC in this application should be rebed every 3 to 4 years.
The ability to backwash the GAC periodically is a good thing.

Google KDF-55 and see what you think about it...

The Media Guard is a smallish container installed on the distributor tube and the dealer can add KDF or carbon etc.. KDF 55 or 85 is very heavy and all softeners have a backwash flow control limiting the water through the resin and KDF etc. during backwash. Usually the gpm won't be over 1.2 to 3 gpm which is way too small to backwash KDF properly and it will clump together and probably reduce your water flow through the softener.

KDF is a bacteriostatic device, not a biocide.

Then you get to replace it and it is very expensive and you must take the control valve off the tank to do that. So since you don't want to be a DIYer to install, you may not want to tear the softener apart down the road a year or two and you'll have to call a local dealer for service, which is usually expensive.

Also, regular resin will usually last 10+ years on chlorinated water, so I suggest you save your money for bother the KDF and carbon prefiltering.

As to the choice of control valves... The 2500 series of valves includes the 1500, 2500 and 2510. They are all residential 3/4" ported valves and limited in the size of tank they can be used on for both a filter and softener. The size of the tank limits the size of the filter and softener and the sizes they can be used on are not used in commercial sized equipment.

The 7000 (a 1.25" ported valve) competes with the Clack WS-1 (1") and 1.25 (1.25") controls. The only other Fleck valves that can compete with the the Clack are the Proflo (5000) and the 2750 and 2850 controls; they are used in small commercial applications.

The Clack WS-1 is used on up to and including a 21" diameter tank for both a filter and softener; that's a 7.5 cuft softener, or 225K. The default 7000 uses a 1.05" distributor tube, which begs the question why would you want a 1.25" valve with the same size DT as in the 3/4" and 1" ported valves?

The 7000 is priced less due to it costing less to manufacture than a 2510 with all its wires and plugs and two motors and multiple micro contact switches.

A circuit board and IC chip is very inexpensive compared to all those parts and labor to assemble them. And the other Fleck valves do not have the features a 7000 does. Like variable reserve and variable brining and soft water brine refill. That variable brining sounds great but I have had a much higher failure rate on the few 7000 valves I've sold than the roughly 800 Clack WS-1 valves; which have had number 16 failures. I don't propose the variable brining because it will use 2-3 times more water than a softener that only regenerates every 8 days, and it will usually end up using more salt too.

All those Fleck valves require special control valve model Fleck tools to replace the seals and spacers. Or a local dealers' service call and parts prices.

The Clack valves are not dainty in any way and the 2510 in any of its versions can't come close to it; especially for a DIYer that either installs his/her softener themselves or hires it done.

Just for clarification:

The 2510 is a heavy duty, high flow commercial grade residential control valve. The SE has simple electronic controls.
I have installed hundreds of 2510SE valves. I use metered valves on all softeners. One lightning related failure.

The 7000SE is very much like the Clack WS-1 … very nice, but the electronics are a little on the dainty side for my tastes.

The KDF-55 (or 85) placed in the MediaGuard is an attempt to utilize its amazing potential and not be hindered by its heavy weight during backwash. The MediaGuard come in four- or six-chamber units. They require 4- and 6- gallons per minute, respectfully, backwash to lift the media during backwash.

But still, it is not easy to change the media. I recommend that if you use this media, use a pre-filter with a clear housing and a refillable cartridge. A simple test will be able to tell when the media has become exhausted. Also, the color of the media will change from copperish color to black.

KDF-55 is more for chlorinated water and -85 is for well water with a light sulfur and iron.

I would never recommend it in the main softener tank, as one national brand does, as it solidifies and very difficult to replace/remove.

Andy Christensen

That sounds like marketing sales hype to many.

Just for informational purposes, IYO what makes the 2510 "a commercial grade residential control valve"?

IMO there are no Noryl controls used in commercial equipment. They all use lead free brass.

As to the Clack electronics... I've had 6 circuit board failures out of roughly 800 sales. Two were due to lightening, one had a broken push button, 2 had an IC error code and the other I never found out what the problem was. All 6 controls have operated service free since replacing the circuit board. I've had one board out of 25 Fleck 7000s sold. Supposedly the Clack board is 'military grade' (potted) meaning the minaturized parts are imbedded in epoxy. I have 4 years 9 months in the USAF maintaining some electronic equipment and 4+ years with GE as an electronics circuit board only troubleshooter and can tell you that circuit boards are very dependable.

In those days if we covered any parts it was with wax only to prevent shorting against another part which did not prevent breakage or movement of parts in any way like hard (clear) epoxy does.

So what makes you think the Clack electronics is "dainty"?

So what valve came first, the Clack WS-1 or the Fleck 7000SE?

They look to be copies of each other.


"Military Grade" is marketing hype. It's either USGI or it's not. ~ It's not.

The Clack WS-1 has been on the market since 2000, the 7000 since 2/1/04 or 05.

Again... how do you support calliing the 2510 "commercial grade"?

Military grade or not, it isn't any more "dainty" than Fleck's SE circuit board; I've had a couple failures of them on 9000/9100 valves and a bad 7000 board. You'll have those problems from time to time with all valves but dainty, no.

rguice,

I was wondering how you made out with you water treatment decisions. Let us know.

Andy Christensen, CWS

Lifesource is it really good?
I would be interested in finding out how to get rid of salt from my softener.My water is so hard,that during treatment too much salt is trans- fered.