20
   

What it feels like at the last moments, before you die?

 
 
LDeMor
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Oct, 2011 01:27 am
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
At the age of 16, I almost died from a doctor who forgot to cauterize my veins after a tonsillectomy. Now Bumble, I beg to differ. I saw no light. I didn't feel any pain laying on the table in the ER. I felt peace. It was an amazing feeling. My brain didn't shut down. I remember looking up (I had lost too much blood and could NOT move) when my father walked in crying. He touched my forehead but I didn't feel the touch. I felt an overwhelming sense of unconditional love. I watched him leave the room as they put me on a gurney. I suppose I blacked out but then came to as the nurses were pushing me into an elevator to go to the operating room. I heard one of the nurses say she was scared to death for me. I told her not to be scared , that I wasn't in pain. How the heck I managed to say that ?? I have no clue . I literally could not move or much else from how much blood I lost. But it did show me one thing. Dying isn't scary, as you say your brain shuts down. I think maybe your brain stops yourself from feeling any pain or going into shock. It may be our bodies way of protecting us. Yet I have to say , the peace I felt was like nothing I have ever felt before or after. Its now 21 years later and I still remember the peace I felt.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Oct, 2011 01:44 am
@LDeMor,
Yea, but people have gotten out of their human bodies
in states of good, normal health and remembered it.

U don 't need to have your human body "die"
in order to get out of it.





David
trying2learn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Oct, 2011 01:45 am
@julmir08,
I was in ICU and the doctors told me I wouldn't live. What I can tell you is I smiled. I thought about others and my dog.
0 Replies
 
LDeMor
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Oct, 2011 02:14 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I thought the question was "what if feels like at the last moments before you die." So therefore I shall ask am I reading the topic wrong or are you just wanting to make a statement that has nothing to do with the topic? What you are referring to is called OBE. Unless I am reading the topic from the OP incorrectly I could have sworn they asking about NDE. What do I know? I am just a noob on this website. So your statement " Yea, but people have gotten out of their human bodies
in states of good, normal health and remembered it.

U don 't need to have your human body "die"
in order to get out of it." makes no sense about what the last moments feel like. Please enlighten me.
wayne
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Oct, 2011 02:19 am
@LDeMor,
That's just how we roll around here, the thread goes where it goes, until the thread nazis show up to demand we get back on track.
LDeMor
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Oct, 2011 02:26 am
@wayne,
well thank you for filling me in on this tidbit of information. Let the derailment continue!!!!
wayne
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Oct, 2011 02:41 am
@LDeMor,
No problem, sometimes it gets really interesting.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Oct, 2011 03:31 am
@LDeMor,
LDeMor wrote:
I thought the question was "what if feels like at the last moments before you die." So therefore I shall ask am I reading the topic wrong or are you just wanting to make a statement that has nothing to do with the topic? What you are referring to is called OBE. Unless I am reading the topic from the OP incorrectly I could have sworn they asking about NDE. What do I know? I am just a noob on this website. So your statement " Yea, but people have gotten out of their human bodies
in states of good, normal health and remembered it.

U don 't need to have your human body "die"
in order to get out of it." makes no sense about what the last moments feel like. Please enlighten me.
BOTH cases involve exiting the human body; in 1 case the human body is in good health
and in the other case: it is not.

In neither of those cases,
is it necessary to feel one particular way about it.





David
0 Replies
 
penrocks
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 02:25 am
@julmir08,
Hmmm, no idea, but I'll assume that there is a point in every one's life that we will feel something unfamiliar that we are gonna die. Smile
0 Replies
 
tomr
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 12:55 pm
@LDeMor,
Thats really not what most people experience before they die. Death is an unimaginably painful experience. If you felt no pain then you were either not as close to death as you think or you were under the influence of powerful painkillers. Take the countless cases of elderly people on their death beds, who wish to end their lives to finally cease their suffering.
If you think about death in terms of evolution, what advantage does it serve people to enjoy death. It makes no sense that the mechanism that should ensure our survival would let us die so easily. Pain is something built into us to prevent death.
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 05:29 pm
If a person actually dies, they can't tell you what their last moments were like before death any more than they can tell you what their last moments were like before birth. Actually the latter is possible (but most unlikely) while the former is not.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 07:35 pm
@tomr,
tomr wrote:

Thats really not what most people experience before they die. Death is an unimaginably painful experience.


Someone else who believes they know what people feel in the last moments before their death.

Out of curiosity, if the degree of pain experienced by someone moments before dying is unimaginable, and you are not someone who has died and returned to enlighten us, how is that you have been able to imagine how painful dying may be?

Whether or not you enjoy death in the moments before you die will not affect the outcome, and clearly there is not enough faith that those last moments are incredibly blissful to have ever triggered a massive wave of suicides.

A better case exists for pain to be a warning against injury than death.

If you put your finger too close to a fire you will almost instantaneously experience pain that is severe enough to cause you move your hand from the flames; as quickly as possible. Your nerves don't need to understand the linkage between injury and death to send you a message designed to help in preventing additional or further injury. On the other hand, if you are completely engulfed in flames, the resulting agony will serve no purpose in helping you avoid death. It is merely the unavoidable aggregation of nerve signals individually designed to warn of injury serving no greater purpose because of the greater extent and ultimate consequence of that injury.

I've often read that prey animals that taken down by pack hunters like hyenas, dogs or wolves will go into shock and die without pain as the predators literally eat them alive. Unable to deliver killing blows or bites to large prey the way the big cats can, hyenas or cape hunting dogs will simply, en masse, begin eating their prey as soon as it has started going to the ground. Usually the animal is brought down from behind and so the feast begins with the abdomen. As a result one can often find photographs of zebras, wildebeest, and other large prey animals striking a seemingly calm pose; laying down among a predatory pack that is busily devouring its bowels.

I've read this on numerous occasions but would not be surprised if it was actually bunk. All sorts of misinformation about animals has been passed around as fact, but if you look at the photos and film of these animals dying, it certainly doesn't appear they are in horrific pain. Having said this, other animals don't necessarily register pain the same way as humans do.

In any case, if suffering is switched off by shock at the moment when we would expect the height of terror and pain to be reached, it's tempting to see conscious external intent behind the phenomenon; in keeping with offering dying humans a glimpse of bliss to come . I'm not prepared to go down that road though.

There is no reason to believe that our genetic predisposition towards remaining alive requires or is enhanced by the experience of intense suffering all the way through to the final bitter end. In fact there are plenty of documented cases where there is every reason to believe an individual died without suffering fear or pain and without the benefit of painkillers.

The practical benefit of pain is in preventing injury, but to that extent it "works" quite well in preventing death too. It's not however evolution's little assistant charged with the singular goal of keeping us alive, and is not, therefore, constrained to operate within what might be considered the logical confines of that goal. Pain doesn't betray its mission by being absent at the final second of life... it doesn't have any mission to fulfill or betray.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Oct, 2011 08:24 am
@tomr,
tomr wrote:
Thats really not what most people experience before they die.

Death is an unimaginably painful experience.
Upon what evidence have u reached that conclusion, tomr?????
Please enlighten us.





David
0 Replies
 
33export
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Oct, 2011 10:35 am
Nothing to be frightened of, really.

Death is the big sister of sleep.

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2280/coffinsrd0.jpg
Remains cartons awaiting disposition at Tan Son Nhut AB,RVN, 1964.

You reach a point in life - about 75 ,more or less - you don't feel
rested after a good night's sleep. Senile dementia sets in,
and along with a weariness in the heart, you settle down for
the big sleep. It comes, sooner or later. When you reach the
point to where just being up and about tires out your back, you
lie in bed longer. Then the big sleep comes as relief. Life sustaining
physiological needs are irrelevant at that point.

A better situation than a traumatic finish, IMO.

Interestingly, my cat perceives the need to stay closer
to me, to the point of lying on the foot of my bed during
bedtime.
tomr
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Oct, 2011 03:51 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I think "unimaginable" is a fitting term for intense pain because if you have ever been in intense pain you would know that the experience cannot be fully recreated by invoking the memory of that event.

Think about this: How would the brain know if there is a chance for survival in any given situation? If you were really injured wouldn't it be better to assume that there is a way to lessen that injury, and pain is the motivation to find that solution. The brain doesn't just know it is going to die, give up, and then decide that it wants you to feel peace in your last moments.

Also the brain generates the sensation of pain. So if you feel pain in your extremities do to some injury the actual feeling experienced is made by your brain. Thats why when people lose an arm or leg they experience phantom pains coming from the appendage that is no longer attached to their bodies. They never ever experience phantom pleasures from amputation, because that would be against the goal of survival.

I think it is interesting that I am the only person here who would post such an outrageous point of view. All I have done is observed the fact that people suffer when they die. If you have ever watched someone die you would know this is true. Unless you have some other motive guiding your belief that people do not suffer at death. Look how quickly you attack the most plain and obvious statement "death is painful". Surely it would be better if we all felt joyful at death but that is not being truthful. Spreading these lies about how death is a wonderful experience is an insult to every person who has suffered death and is misleading to everyone else. Grow up people.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Oct, 2011 05:20 pm
@tomr,
tomr wrote:

I think "unimaginable" is a fitting term for intense pain because if you have ever been in intense pain you would know that the experience cannot be fully recreated by invoking the memory of that event.

Then "unimaginable" is a fitting term for any and all levels of pain because the experience of mild pain cannot be fully recreated by invoking the memory of the event any more than you can the experience of intense pain. I've experience them all and I can't recreate any of them from memory.

Imagination is assisted by memory not synonymous with it


Think about this: How would the brain know if there is a chance for survival in any given situation? If you were really injured wouldn't it be better to assume that there is a way to lessen that injury, and pain is the motivation to find that solution. The brain doesn't just know it is going to die, give up, and then decide that it wants you to feel peace in your last moments.

The brain doesn't know if there is a chance for survival in any given situation. The mind may be able to calculate some degree of probability for the outcomes of survival or death, based on how much information is available to it, but neither your mind nor your brain are going to make a decision that your greatest chance of survival is to experience ever more excruciating levels of pain, the closer you come to death...and then implement that game plan.

If you have a problem with the notion that the White Light experience is conjured by your brain to do you a favor for your years of lengthy service, that's fine. I don't buy it either.


Also the brain generates the sensation of pain. So if you feel pain in your extremities do to some injury the actual feeling experienced is made by your brain. Thats why when people lose an arm or leg they experience phantom pains coming from the appendage that is no longer attached to their bodies. They never ever experience phantom pleasures from amputation, because that would be against the goal of survival.

You're not making a whole lot of sense here. Are you suggesting that "phantom pain" facilitates perpetuation of the species by providing us with a reminder of why we should be more careful with those limbs we still have? Through most of the period of time mankind has been on this planet, amputation of a limb has pretty much been a death sentence. "Phantom pain" as a warning signal would never have increased the chances of survival to an extent that it would become prevalent as a genetic trait.

I have never heard of anyone experiencing phantom pleasure, but it would have to involve one heck of a kick before anyone would become consciously or sub-consciously less attentive to preserving their limbs and thereby thwart what you believe is the goal of evolution

I think some of your difficulties center on the assumption that survival is the goal of evolution when it simply is the prize and the means by which genes that advance its chances in a given animal advance its chances in a species.


I think it is interesting that I am the only person here who would post such an outrageous point of view.

Which outrageous point of view do you mean? You've posted quite a few.

All I have done is observed the fact that people suffer when they die.

Clearly you haven't observed enough people dying .

If you have ever watched someone die you would know this is true.

I have and I do not

Unless you have some other motive guiding your belief that people do not suffer at death.

Ahhh, so this is where you've taken your sharp left turn. How have you arrived at the conclusion that it is my belief that people do not suffer at death. I've never made any such statement.

Look how quickly you attack the most plain and obvious statement "death is painful".

If I attacked anything it was your certainty that you know how everyone feels at the moments before they die. I'll also attack the notion that death is always painful, if you insist that is the case too.

Surely it would be better if we all felt joyful at death but that is not being truthful. Spreading these lies about how death is a wonderful experience is an insult to every person who has suffered death and is misleading to everyone else. Grow up people.

I don't know if you need to grow up, but you need to read more carefully.


JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Oct, 2011 05:42 pm
BBB, I've noticed in a few movies--a poor sample to be sure--of zebras brought down by lions that once they are down and in the grip of the lion's jaws they seem to give up all struggle (while still alive). I've wondered if a flush of endorphins might have calmed them down into a deep and painless passivity. But I I leave that up to scientific observations.
0 Replies
 
tomr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2011 12:42 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
You're not making a whole lot of sense here. Are you suggesting that "phantom pain" facilitates perpetuation of the species by providing us with a reminder of why we should be more careful with those limbs we still have? Through most of the period of time mankind has been on this planet, amputation of a limb has pretty much been a death sentence. "Phantom pain" as a warning signal would never have increased the chances of survival to an extent that it would become prevalent as a genetic trait.


No I am saying "phantom pains" exist as an example of the way pain is generated in general. Why, would the brain continue causing us pain if nothing can be done. The answer is that the brain doesn't care about what can be done it works better if the mechanism causes pain anytime you are injured. That way the brain does not have to sort through all the possible situations that might exist as a solution to fixing an injury. It is inefficient and a waste of energy in a critical situation.

Now about animals. Zeebras and Lions. Why does the Zeebra lie still while having its throat ripped out with a lion on top of it? Where is it going to go with its entrails in a Hyenas mouth. The animals struggle a little and then give up peacefully. So they are happy. Or maybe if they move perhaps they fear the consequences, not to mention their strength wasted in fighting. Lying still is probably the best option for survival or these animals would not do it. Why do people automatically see this as something good. It is hard to read animal feelings. I think something in our brains is making us believe something so horrible feels good to a dying mutulated animal.

Quote:
The brain doesn't know if there is a chance for survival in any given situation. The mind may be able to calculate some degree of probability for the outcomes of survival or death, based on how much information is available to it, but neither your mind nor your brain are going to make a decision that your greatest chance of survival is to experience ever more excruciating levels of pain, the closer you come to death...and then implement that game plan.


If people hurt when they are injuried and hurt alot when they are injured badly. And if you are injured badly enough you will begin to die. Then dying should necessarily be painful. As you die your body takes more damage and other areas become injured as complications of earlier injuries. So as the body dies there should be alot of pain. Until at some point the brain can no longer generate pain (and will not waste its limited resources making you feel good for no reason) and you die. So there is no decision made to make you feel pain at death it is a mindless reflex of your brain doing what it must do.

Quote:
I don't know if you need to grow up, but you need to read more carefully.


You are right. I kind of mixed your comment with some of the others and somethings I have heard before and addressed it to you. That was unfair of me. It is better to be undecided, then to be wrong. I'm growing bigger everyday.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2011 01:55 pm
@33export,
33export wrote:
Nothing to be frightened of, really.
Please tell us
the source of your information. Thank u.






David
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2011 02:16 pm
@tomr,
I think you’ve come full circle on you “phantom pain” argument but that’s neither here nor there.

Correct me if I’m wrong but your central thesis seems to be that dying is always a painful process, and so your unequivocal answer to the original question: “What does it feel like at the last moments before you die?” is “Very painful.”

Your reasoning seems to be something to the effect of

a) The body reacts to injuries with pain
b) Death is the culmination of sufficiently seriously injuries
c) Death must be accompanied by pain

I’m not sure though how you square this with the fact that people do not always report they are in pain moments before they die.

At one point you seemed to suggest that this a questionable fact to begin with and anyone who has sat with someone who has died will know that to be the case.

Unfortunately, for you argument, you have not been with everyone as they died, and I have been with at least two people who, moments before they died, reported that they were not in pain.

For you to hold fast to your thesis you would seem to have to believe:

a) I am lying or mistaken
b) The dying people who told me they were not in pain were lying or mistaken

I suppose both (a) and (b) are possible (with the exception that I don’t think someone can be mistaken about being in pain. You are either in pain or not.), but if that’s what you think we could save ourselves some time if you would state it.

It is, admittedly, unreliable but most people who observe a zebra that is being devoured alive by a pack of hyenas don’t see or hear any indications that the animal is in any pain, let alone the sort of agony we would expect to be caused by having one’s body consumed by several large carnivores.

I suppose someone could concoct an experiment that indicated whether there was electrical activity in those sections of the zebra’s brain that are associated with the perception of pain, during its last moments of life within the jaws of the pack, but I’m not sure that this alone would prove the animal was experiencing pain. Perhaps others on A2K can comment on the reliability of such tests.

In any case, without some measurements of brain activity and the like, we are left with what we perceive, and most people do not perceive the animals to be in pain. Of course, even if this case is true, it doesn’t mean that the zebra is experiencing bliss or of much of anything at all besides utter exhaustion.

I have no idea if the same phenomenon occurs when a human being is being eaten alive by a pack of animals or by individual creatures. I’ve not seen footage of such an occurrence nor do I ever want to but it must be out there and someone has seen it.

But we don’t need to see people being brought down by wolves to determine if they can die without being in pain. We can ask them; as they are dying.

I can’t explain exactly why a person might be pain free at death, or what the physical mechanism might be that would allow it, but I certainly don’t think it’s because the body has “decided” there’s no further point in sending pain signals to the brain. Even if that were the case, the fact would remain the person died without being in pain.

I do know, personally, of two cases where a dying person reported that he or she was not in pain, only moments before life left. That’s enough to convince me.
 

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