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Matrix Revolutions

 
 
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2003 09:17 pm
So, has anyone seen it yet?
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2003 10:31 pm
Yep, saw it last night. Pretty spectacular movie. Fantastic effects.
0 Replies
 
Roosh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Nov, 2003 07:55 pm
Thought I'd jump in here with some general Matrix plot/concept-related questions (a lot, actually). I Saw Revolutions in the theater yesterday & just re-watched Reloaded at home.

(Not looking for 'The Matrix is gimmicky, uses pseudo-philosophy, the last 2 sucked' type of responses. Just some direct answers/ideas.)


* Based on (trying to understand) the Architect sequence (and first using some back-history explained in "The Animatrix: The Second Renaissance"), Humans used machines, machines rebelled, machines won the war, enslaved humans in the pods and ran the 1st matrix program to keep them vital as they drained their energy/life force/whatever, yes?
* So from that matrix version, through the next 5 (or 6?), a 'The One' program (in the case of the trilogy, Neo) is designed by the machines/Architect program for every new version intentionally? ( but then, he's referred to as an "anomaly", which isn't one's intention)
* If he is a program, and is foreseen, what exactly is his purpose if he's constantly bucking the system, thwarting attempts to be controlled and aiding the humans? Doesn't make much sense for the machines/programs to intentionally create a program that will pose a threat to the harmony of their life sources & continued existence/prosperity...
* Yet he exists as a human being in the real world as well? (others in the matrix with such extraordinary abilities as Neo, such as Smith & The Oracle are still only programs withing the matrix). If you continue with the notion that He's human, this begs the question (and I know I'm not the first genius to ask, so just give me some feedback as to what some ideas on this subject are), how was he able to stop the sentinels in the real world near the end of Reloaded and approaching Machine City in Revolutions? (suggesting that everything we've seen in the trilogy: the matrix & post-war Earth is a matrix itself, with Neo plugged in a world one step beyond the one we've seen [now it's getting ridiculous - more so])
* So maybe a thinking here is that Neo is just a human being who is naturally gifted (maybe using more than 10% of his allotted brain power) and has the ability to detect the artificiality within the matrix and thus manipulate/control/fight back against the circuitry that's being feeded into the back of his skull?

* The Merovingian was a former The One gone bad/power hungry? Is he human or a program as well? How does he have the power/who is he to grant another program that's about to get deleted (the daughter in the Indian family from the train station in Revolutions) the ability to avoid deletion?

* The Keymaker was a program that could create keys to various parts of the matrix? (looking for a more thorough definition of his origin/purpose)

* What's the deal with the function ("EMP", or something?) of the human ships that can wipe out/turn off all of the sentinels once's executed?

* Please explain all things "Bane".
-Why's he bad?
-Why'd he slit his wrists?
-Why'd he try to kill Neo in Zion in Reloaded?
-What did he do to thwart the humans against the machine as is explained at the end of Reloaded, & why was he spared/how did he survive?
-How did Smith, a program, take form of/posess a human that wasn't plugged into the matrix?

* This is more just a thought than a question - Smith rebelling, Merovingian rebelling, The Oracle going her own way, Neo, the ultimate revolutionary (assuming he is a program, himself), - are these examples of machines 'waking up' and rebelling against their masters, this time being the machines, the same way the machines woke up against the humans? If Neo is a human, is this an example, especially in the case of the Indian father program who seems to relate to Neo, of the impending need for humans & machines to coexist/make peace?


Thanks for any feedback.

Also, just found this, which may clear some things up for inquisitive Matrix fans such as myself.

Timeline: When Is 'The Matrix'?
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Nov, 2003 03:11 am
EMP, electro magnetic pulse.
An effect of todays nuclear weapons which would wipe out lot's of electronic equipment.

Someone else can answer the rest.
0 Replies
 
Bugger20
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2003 07:09 am
How did something start so cool end up so dorky? IMO, the first one was the best, revolutions comes in 2nd and reloaded was just a bore. RIP Neo & Trin!
0 Replies
 
Eastree
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2003 09:04 am
Though I have not seen Matrix Revolutions, i can explain things about Reloaded.

Quote:
Humans used machines, machines rebelled, machines won the war, enslaved humans in the pods and ran the 1st matrix program to keep them vital as they drained their energy/life force/whatever, yes?


yes.

Quote:
So from that matrix version, through the next 5 (or 6?), a 'The One' program (in the case of the trilogy, Neo) is designed by the machines/Architect program for every new version intentionally? ( but then, he's referred to as an "anomaly", which isn't one's intention)


"The one" is an anomaly -- it's a bug which occurs at almost predictable intervals, at a time when the residents of Zion are becoming almost unmanageable, and therefore the population needs to be ... er ... renewed. It seems that it's a known bug but the portions of the matrix (as in the part of the program which writes itself and looks for ways to improve for its next almost total reconstruction) has decided to exploit this error as a way to easily re-tool the system. So yes, Neo was a bug (in the matrix) -- completely a mistake, but a recurring one.

Quote:

If he is a program, and is foreseen, what exactly is his purpose if he's constantly bucking the system, thwarting attempts to be controlled and aiding the humans? Doesn't make much sense for the machines/programs to intentionally create a program that will pose a threat to the harmony of their life sources & continued existence/prosperity...



see last question (the unmanageable part)

Quote:
Yet he exists as a human being in the real world as well? (others in the matrix with such extraordinary abilities as Neo, such as Smith & The Oracle are still only programs withing the matrix). If you continue with the notion that He's human, this begs the question (and I know I'm not the first genius to ask, so just give me some feedback as to what some ideas on this subject are), how was he able to stop the sentinels in the real world near the end of Reloaded and approaching Machine City in Revolutions? (suggesting that everything we've seen in the trilogy: the matrix & post-war Earth is a matrix itself, with Neo plugged in a world one step beyond the one we've seen [now it's getting ridiculous - more so])


This delves a bit into the philosophical aspect of the movies. The question is "What is reality?" -- referring to the philosophy suggesting that reality is solely based on perception to each individual. However, the movie does seem to give some excuse to this when Agent Smith assimilates himself into the "real world" by killing the person about to leave, then answering the phone and entering the person's body. As the ending of Reloaded suggests, there would be some reason given to why or how Neo is able to do this in Revolutions -- I have not seen it yet, so I cannot answer that yet.

The fact that Neo is real on the outside is a given -- the characters playing within the Matrix are actual minds being manipulated into perceiving that supplied world. It is designed to satisfy the slaves in a way to convince them of its reality. So when Neo is awakened, all he knows is his life in the Matrix. It is his second reality -- but he is shown the bogus nature and takes the chance to go back into the matrix to make a difference.

The computer-generated individuals are just that -- programs with the ability to use the Matrix to their advantages. That's all (Until Agent Smith enters Zion via another body -- I'll have to explain later).

Quote:
So maybe a thinking here is that Neo is just a human being who is naturally gifted (maybe using more than 10% of his allotted brain power) and has the ability to detect the artificiality within the matrix and thus manipulate/control/fight back against the circuitry that's being feeded into the back of his skull?


This isn;t necessarily the case -- Neo has only been shown how to manipulate the computer-generated world, by changing and using the information being supplied through the back of his head. Though the character is shown as an intelligent individual, there is nothing to suggest he is significantly ingenious. It is possible he is gifted at manipulating the matrix -- or perhaps just smart enough. As far as the real word (I know that would be your next question to this answer), I will have to wait until I see Revolutions and re-watch the first in the series to make my decision -- also go back to another answer in this post.

Quote:
The Keymaker was a program that could create keys to various parts of the matrix? (looking for a more thorough definition of his origin/purpose)


This is basically true. As it seems, the Keymaker was made as a back door to the program -- a way to grant access to any part. The keys would function basically as addresses on the vast servers and memory drives of the Matrix in the way that only when a certain key is used will it open the door into a specific part of the world. Basically, if someone "important" needs fast access to a part of the Matrix, they can go tot he Keymaker for the way.

Quote:
What's the deal with the function ("EMP", or something?) of the human ships that can wipe out/turn off all of the sentinels once's executed?


EMP -- for more information I would suggest the August 2001 issue of Popular Mechanics. EMP is traditionally the result of a nuclear blast, but it can be simulated from other sources. It covers a very wide range of the electromagnetic spectrum, and fries any circuit which is not incredibly well shielded. In the Matrix movies, the EMP is created from an alternate source -- it seems to be the result of an incredibly large capacitor being shorted through a large variable indictor. This is a very simple way to create a pseudo-EMP burst.

Quote:
Please explain all things "Bane".
-Why's he bad?
-Why'd he slit his wrists?
-Why'd he try to kill Neo in Zion in Reloaded?
-What did he do to thwart the humans against the machine as is explained at the end of Reloaded, & why was he spared/how did he survive?
-How did Smith, a program, take form of/posess a human that wasn't plugged into the matrix?


I cannot answer all of these. Bane did not try to kill Neo -- if you notice at the beginning of Reloaded, wen the agents are rushing to get out of the Matrix -- smith kills Bane's Matrix character, then picks up the phone for Bane, thus entering Bane's body. This would not physically kill Bane. It does however bring up the question of the human entity. Is it just a perception of death, life, etc., or did his soul (for lack of a better term) truly enter the Matrix? Well, one way or another -- Smith uses Bane's body in Zion. When Bane slits his wrists (if it's in Reloaded, I don;t remember and I will have to see it again) it could possibly be that part of Bane's conscience hanging on, and taking the only way Bane would know to kill Smith in Zion.

Quote:
This is more just a thought than a question - Smith rebelling, Merovingian rebelling, The Oracle going her own way, Neo, the ultimate revolutionary (assuming he is a program, himself), - are these examples of machines 'waking up' and rebelling against their masters, this time being the machines, the same way the machines woke up against the humans? If Neo is a human, is this an example, especially in the case of the Indian father program who seems to relate to Neo, of the impending need for humans & machines to coexist/make peace?


This si a question that has many possible answers. Smith (to me) seems to have discovered that he can act on his own, and he is acting on his own volition to stop Neo. It's that simple to me.

I really don;t remember much of Merovingian. So after I re-review, i may edit this.

The Oracle goes her own way because she is not really a threat -- or she is simply an archive for the main Matrix server/memory bank. For some reason, the Oracle is a character and not merely a program component to archive information. She, as a "human" character, can do as she wishes.

Neo is not truly a program -- only his physical nature in the Matrix is. That's the way it is for all true human minds in the matrix. Their perception is manipulated byt he Matrix -- thus shaping their minds into accepting the world as it is presented to them.

As the Indian father urges peace between humans and robots, the question is once again brought up about true equality. It seems that one will always try to master the other and vie for superiority. This is human nature, and human nature has been programmed into the machines.

O-- and thanks for the link! I know about a book which is devoted to the philosophical aspects of the Matrix (at least the first one). So if you PM me or something, I can send you the link. note: I have not actually read the book , and I cannot vouch for any information in it. A lot of people seem to respect it a s a good source for this information.
0 Replies
 
Roosh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Nov, 2003 12:17 am
Eastree wrote:
Though I have not seen Matrix Revolutions, i can explain things about Reloaded.

Quote:
Humans used machines, machines rebelled, machines won the war, enslaved humans in the pods and ran the 1st matrix program to keep them vital as they drained their energy/life force/whatever, yes?


yes.

Quote:
So from that matrix version, through the next 5 (or 6?), a 'The One' program (in the case of the trilogy, Neo) is designed by the machines/Architect program for every new version intentionally? ( but then, he's referred to as an "anomaly", which isn't one's intention)


"The one" is an anomaly -- it's a bug which occurs at almost predictable intervals, at a time when the residents of Zion are becoming almost unmanageable, and therefore the population needs to be ... er ... renewed. It seems that it's a known bug but the portions of the matrix (as in the part of the program which writes itself and looks for ways to improve for its next almost total reconstruction) has decided to exploit this error as a way to easily re-tool the system. So yes, Neo was a bug (in the matrix) -- completely a mistake, but a recurring one.

Quote:

If he is a program, and is foreseen, what exactly is his purpose if he's constantly bucking the system, thwarting attempts to be controlled and aiding the humans? Doesn't make much sense for the machines/programs to intentionally create a program that will pose a threat to the harmony of their life sources & continued existence/prosperity...



see last question (the unmanageable part)

Quote:
Yet he exists as a human being in the real world as well? (others in the matrix with such extraordinary abilities as Neo, such as Smith & The Oracle are still only programs withing the matrix). If you continue with the notion that He's human, this begs the question (and I know I'm not the first genius to ask, so just give me some feedback as to what some ideas on this subject are), how was he able to stop the sentinels in the real world near the end of Reloaded and approaching Machine City in Revolutions? (suggesting that everything we've seen in the trilogy: the matrix & post-war Earth is a matrix itself, with Neo plugged in a world one step beyond the one we've seen [now it's getting ridiculous - more so])


This delves a bit into the philosophical aspect of the movies. The question is "What is reality?" -- referring to the philosophy suggesting that reality is solely based on perception to each individual. However, the movie does seem to give some excuse to this when Agent Smith assimilates himself into the "real world" by killing the person about to leave, then answering the phone and entering the person's body. As the ending of Reloaded suggests, there would be some reason given to why or how Neo is able to do this in Revolutions -- I have not seen it yet, so I cannot answer that yet.

The fact that Neo is real on the outside is a given -- the characters playing within the Matrix are actual minds being manipulated into perceiving that supplied world. It is designed to satisfy the slaves in a way to convince them of its reality. So when Neo is awakened, all he knows is his life in the Matrix. It is his second reality -- but he is shown the bogus nature and takes the chance to go back into the matrix to make a difference.

The computer-generated individuals are just that -- programs with the ability to use the Matrix to their advantages. That's all (Until Agent Smith enters Zion via another body -- I'll have to explain later).

Quote:
So maybe a thinking here is that Neo is just a human being who is naturally gifted (maybe using more than 10% of his allotted brain power) and has the ability to detect the artificiality within the matrix and thus manipulate/control/fight back against the circuitry that's being feeded into the back of his skull?


This isn;t necessarily the case -- Neo has only been shown how to manipulate the computer-generated world, by changing and using the information being supplied through the back of his head. Though the character is shown as an intelligent individual, there is nothing to suggest he is significantly ingenious. It is possible he is gifted at manipulating the matrix -- or perhaps just smart enough. As far as the real word (I know that would be your next question to this answer), I will have to wait until I see Revolutions and re-watch the first in the series to make my decision -- also go back to another answer in this post.

Quote:
The Keymaker was a program that could create keys to various parts of the matrix? (looking for a more thorough definition of his origin/purpose)


This is basically true. As it seems, the Keymaker was made as a back door to the program -- a way to grant access to any part. The keys would function basically as addresses on the vast servers and memory drives of the Matrix in the way that only when a certain key is used will it open the door into a specific part of the world. Basically, if someone "important" needs fast access to a part of the Matrix, they can go tot he Keymaker for the way.

Quote:
What's the deal with the function ("EMP", or something?) of the human ships that can wipe out/turn off all of the sentinels once's executed?


EMP -- for more information I would suggest the August 2001 issue of Popular Mechanics. EMP is traditionally the result of a nuclear blast, but it can be simulated from other sources. It covers a very wide range of the electromagnetic spectrum, and fries any circuit which is not incredibly well shielded. In the Matrix movies, the EMP is created from an alternate source -- it seems to be the result of an incredibly large capacitor being shorted through a large variable indictor. This is a very simple way to create a pseudo-EMP burst.

Quote:
Please explain all things "Bane".
-Why's he bad?
-Why'd he slit his wrists?
-Why'd he try to kill Neo in Zion in Reloaded?
-What did he do to thwart the humans against the machine as is explained at the end of Reloaded, & why was he spared/how did he survive?
-How did Smith, a program, take form of/posess a human that wasn't plugged into the matrix?


I cannot answer all of these. Bane did not try to kill Neo -- if you notice at the beginning of Reloaded, wen the agents are rushing to get out of the Matrix -- smith kills Bane's Matrix character, then picks up the phone for Bane, thus entering Bane's body. This would not physically kill Bane. It does however bring up the question of the human entity. Is it just a perception of death, life, etc., or did his soul (for lack of a better term) truly enter the Matrix? Well, one way or another -- Smith uses Bane's body in Zion. When Bane slits his wrists (if it's in Reloaded, I don;t remember and I will have to see it again) it could possibly be that part of Bane's conscience hanging on, and taking the only way Bane would know to kill Smith in Zion.

Quote:
This is more just a thought than a question - Smith rebelling, Merovingian rebelling, The Oracle going her own way, Neo, the ultimate revolutionary (assuming he is a program, himself), - are these examples of machines 'waking up' and rebelling against their masters, this time being the machines, the same way the machines woke up against the humans? If Neo is a human, is this an example, especially in the case of the Indian father program who seems to relate to Neo, of the impending need for humans & machines to coexist/make peace?


This si a question that has many possible answers. Smith (to me) seems to have discovered that he can act on his own, and he is acting on his own volition to stop Neo. It's that simple to me.

I really don;t remember much of Merovingian. So after I re-review, i may edit this.

The Oracle goes her own way because she is not really a threat -- or she is simply an archive for the main Matrix server/memory bank. For some reason, the Oracle is a character and not merely a program component to archive information. She, as a "human" character, can do as she wishes.

Neo is not truly a program -- only his physical nature in the Matrix is. That's the way it is for all true human minds in the matrix. Their perception is manipulated byt he Matrix -- thus shaping their minds into accepting the world as it is presented to them.

As the Indian father urges peace between humans and robots, the question is once again brought up about true equality. It seems that one will always try to master the other and vie for superiority. This is human nature, and human nature has been programmed into the machines.

O-- and thanks for the link! I know about a book which is devoted to the philosophical aspects of the Matrix (at least the first one). So if you PM me or something, I can send you the link. note: I have not actually read the book , and I cannot vouch for any information in it. A lot of people seem to respect it a s a good source for this information.


>Nice reply! Thanks. That does shed some light.
>I think some aspects of the plot such as Bane slitting his wrists, are covered in the Enter The Matrix film footage, which I'm still eager to see.
>Definitely interested in that Matrix book. Go 'head & PM me.

> I've come across these very interesting & informative links since I wrote this...

CORPORATE MOFO reloads THE MATRIX

THE MATRIX REVOLUTIONS: the corporate mofo guide
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Nov, 2003 12:19 am
Bugger20 wrote:
How did something start so cool end up so dorky? IMO, the first one was the best, revolutions comes in 2nd and reloaded was just a bore. RIP Neo & Trin!


I agree pretty much with all that.
0 Replies
 
Eastree
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Nov, 2003 10:34 am
ditto for now -- at least as far as the first is a lot better then Reloaded. i still haven't seen revolutions ...
0 Replies
 
NNY
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2003 05:59 pm
I disliked it quite a bit. I didn't like the second one either. The only good one was one. No I will not explain! I don't feel like typing and my eyes hurt.

I'm so sorry
0 Replies
 
quinn1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2003 07:40 pm
I certainly didnt like it as much as the first, or even the first 2....ah well...it seems though a nice rounding of an end to it all Ijust wish it was maybe edited differently or something. Many parts dragged a bit on and on and the action was as human involved which was the best part of one. Trinity used to be my favorite character but, after the unending end I really lost all bravado for her...eh, just My opinion though. Im glad I saw it and you know....would probably buy the whole set and might enjoy a Saturday sometime sitting and watching all three but, not among my favorites. Too bad really.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2003 08:47 pm
Haven't seen 3 yet, but one thing I noticed even with 2 is that they basically relied on our goodwill for the characters from 1. They didn't do anything so wonderful/ endearing in 2, and you didn't really root for Neo + Trin the way you did in 1. It's like you really are meant to sit through the whole six hours or whatever... if you just watched 1, then you still have all of this residual good feeling for them, rooting for them, etc. But in 2 already that was getting stretched, and sounds like 3 is worse.
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2003 09:18 pm
Eh, good entertainment, but not nearly up to par with 1 (or even 2).
0 Replies
 
thatsonanhhung
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2003 08:04 am
Hi everyone, Razz

Thank you so much for all your posts.

I was so eager to go and see
“Matrix – Revolutions”…
However, as reading through your posts….
I think I might just wait to rent the DVD instead … :wink:
0 Replies
 
crucifixation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2003 03:08 am
littlek wrote:
Eh, good entertainment, but not nearly up to par with 1 (or even 2).


you said it..... too much of the action stuff
0 Replies
 
Turner 727
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2003 04:16 am
I had a long post regarding this in another forum, but I'm not going to dig it up now.

Suffice it to say, I was very disappointed with the way they handled the war with the machines. The rest of the movie I could deal with. Some of the best fighting scenes I've seen in a movie were when they were defending Zion. But the final battle between Neo and Smith really left a bad taste in my mouth.

So much could have been done with this. But if feels to me like they got tired at the end, and just wanted it over.
0 Replies
 
annifa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 04:42 am
You people are getting way to deep.. its a film, sit back, enjoy it.. think and talk about it but please god why do you have to pick the whole thing to pieces??? its not real y'know.... gaaawwwwd
0 Replies
 
Eastree
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 04:57 am
I know it's not real. I'm not really that concerned about it. As for my long post, well .... Roosh asked so ... what else was there to do? And believe me (though this does not justify looking too deeply into every intricacy of the movie), there are a lot of people who go much deeper into things than this. There are 800-page books explaining and interpereting everything in the movies, though who really wants to go that deep?
0 Replies
 
annifa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 08:59 am
Point taken... now people can not only write 800-page books they can read 'em too, haha that'll keep them busy... for a little while at least
0 Replies
 
 

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