6
   

When has religion irked you personally and why?

 
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 11:25 pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/840000/images/_840742_paedophile_priests2_tp300.jpg
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 11:31 pm
Quote:
Paedophile cases haunt the church



The police are investigating evidence that a known paedophile returned to work as a priest in 1985. It is the latest in a long line of abuse cases to tarnish the Catholic Church's image. By BBC News Online's Megan Lane.

There was a time when, almost without exception, a priest was regarded as a respected member of the community.

Today, the news that yet another cleric has been accused of sexually abusing children is not uncommon.

Religious affairs commentator Andrew Brown says revelations that Archbishop Cormac Murphy-O'Connor - then a bishop - allowed a known paedophile to continue working as a priest, will damage the church's reputation in the UK.

John Wilkins, editor of Catholic weekly The Tablet, says the image of the church has been tarnished "appallingly" by paedophile priests around the world.

"It has done enormous damage to priests themselves - their morale is very low. They feel depressed and defensive.

"It has been appalling for church - there is mistrust between parishioners and their priest, the general public and priests."

Since 1994, the Catholic Church has had strict child protection procedures.

Previously, a suspected paedophile priest would most likely be shuffled sideways to another parish. Today, the church authorities inform the police, move the alleged abuser to a safe house, and suspend him or her from pastoral duties.

In October 1999, Pope John Paul II sacked Father John Lloyd, who raped a 16-year-old girl and indecently assaulted two altar boys in south Wales - the first such dismissal of a British priest in recent history.

The Pope dismissed American three priests in 1998, and sacked two diocesan priests in Ireland in recent years.

Yet Mr Wilkins questions whether those at the top of the church hierarchy take the issue seriously enough. The Pope has twice received the former archbishop of Vienna, Hans Hermann Groer, at the Vatican, despite allegations that he had sexually molested young clergymen.

Public apology

The Irish government has launched an inquiry into allegations of abuse at so-called industrial schools, where children were detained if their parents were deemed too poor to look after them, or if they stole or played truant.

The 52 schools, run by Catholic religious orders and backed by the government, closed in the 1970s.

Campaigners say the priests and nuns subjected most of the children in their care to physical or sexual attacks.

Following these and other allegations made during the 1990s, the Christian Brothers, the Oblates of Mary Immaculate and the Sisters of Mercy have issued public apologies for abuse inflicted over the years in their institutions.

The Christian Brothers have also been implicated in sex scandals in Canada. More than 300 former pupils at Mount Cashel orphanage, Newfoundland, have alleged the lay brothers abused them.

The scandal forced the order to sell property and assets to pay legal and compensation bills.

Compensation

In 1998, the Roman Catholic Church in Dallas, Texas, agreed to pay more than $30m to 12 former altar boys molested by a priest.

Church authorities allegedly ignored warnings and covered up Father Rudolph Kos's activities. He is serving a life sentence for more than 1,300 attacks carried out between 1981 and 1992.

Back in Britain, this year the victims of convicted paedophile Father Eric Taylor have said they plan to sue the church for failing to protect them.

Taylor is serving a seven-year prison sentence for sexual offences against children in Father Hudson's Homes in the 1960s, a Catholic charity.

Earlier this month, Father James Murphy pleaded guilty to 18 charges of indecent assault against seven children at south London parishes from 1976 to 1990. He attacked some of his victims in church itself.

In April, prison authorities in Ireland moved Father Eugene Greene to another jail following attempts to kill him. The retired priest is serving a 12-year sentence for abusing altar boys.

Four years ago, Father Adrian McLeish, of Durham, was jailed for six years. He had abused four boys - the sons of parishioners - and boasted about it on the internet. Police had seized the UK's biggest collection of child pornography from his home.

Although Mr Wilkins says it would be difficult to link the scandals to the falling numbers attending mass, "it certainly won't put attendance up."
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 11:33 pm
gozmo wrote:
Wilso wrote:
I can't go on. Considering the effect these tales having on me, I can't even begin to imagine the suffering all these children experienced at the hands of these monsters.These stories exist in the thousands.


Grow up



It's my hope that the countless number of abused children can grow up, minus the awful scars they've recieved from the organisation you love so much.
0 Replies
 
gozmo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 11:39 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Wilso, Most religions has a special hold on people that goes beyond logic or ethics. It won't be found in defenders of the 'faith.'


I have no faith to defend. However I will defend a decent community from the illogical and sweeping prejudice that Wilso promotes. He is dogmatic and unyielding in his belief and irrational in his hatred. Sounds like a christian bigot, doesn't it?
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 11:41 pm
dlowan wrote:
Yep - power without accountability sucks
In lots of places....
Good people still exist in such organisations - and they can do good.


Maybe a few more of these "good people" should start doing some good. INstead of just going to church every Sunday, and giving them the money they need to continue their abuse and cover ups.
0 Replies
 
gozmo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 11:41 pm
Wilso wrote:
gozmo wrote:
Wilso wrote:
I can't go on. Considering the effect these tales having on me, I can't even begin to imagine the suffering all these children experienced at the hands of these monsters.These stories exist in the thousands.


Grow up



It's my hope that the countless number of abused children can grow up, minus the awful scars they've recieved from the organisation you love so much.


?
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 11:42 pm
Let me acknowledge that I was the one that clocked you,
wilso, because even though I tend to agree with all or at least many of your posts, I also acknowledge vast millions of believers and vast believers even among priests are ok. I may have known saints, in performance, n'er mind miracles, myself, but saints. as in really good people. For them I was offended by your all encompassing diatribes.

It is me that reported your post, the one single post of all your blasts, that was deleted, because I don't like to see flagrant red letters saying expletives in my face. The odd thing is, we actually, mostly, agree. I just don't criminalize a whole religion over time. (Well, hey I do, but not indiscriminently.)

No, before you give me nazi symbols as a catholic sympathizer, which would make anyone who knows me laugh, be quiet and listen. Vile behavior lives all over the place. Not everyone all over the place subscribes to vile.

Wilso, you are one angry person, and I hope you can strap that in, because it is quite a blast, to some extent misapplied.

You might be surprised that I am angrier at the Catholic church than you are. But because of your inchoate anger, you are flailing and also being very abusive to people on a2k. We don't need obscenties in big red letters.
0 Replies
 
gozmo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 11:48 pm
Wilso wrote:
dlowan wrote:
Yep - power without accountability sucks
In lots of places....
Good people still exist in such organisations - and they can do good.


Maybe a few more of these "good people" should start doing some good. INstead of just going to church every Sunday, and giving them the money they need to continue their abuse and cover ups.


Well I am pleased that you hope but would be more encouraged if you actually did something to help.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 11:49 pm
I don't really care about a few deleted expletives. As you can see from all the real stories, there's enough of them to post for years and years. And I do anger easily, particularly on this subject, and I have absolutely no desire or inclination to let it go. Not while this hugely powerful, wealthy organisation continues to use it's money to protect the most vile criminals on the face of the earth. And if that offends a few catholics, tough luck.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 11:51 pm
Religions are organizations to promote morals and good behavior toward other humans (and all living things). Any religion that perpetuates paedophile activities by the "teachers" of any religion has no grounds to be respected nor defended. As Wilso opines, "the good people" of the church should demand and get full compliance with the moral and ethical standards of the church. When the leaders of the church refuse to correct the abuse, it's up to people like Wilso to make them public. Coverup is not an option.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 11:59 pm
Google search results Catholic church + paedophile.............7530 pages.
Anglican church + paedophile.............1990 pages
Baptist church + paedophile...............967 pages
Methodist church + paedophile...........505 pages

For those who believe I'm only anti catholic. It's an epidemic.
0 Replies
 
gozmo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2004 12:02 am
c.i.

Has it not occurred to you that the victims are in the church also; and the reason there are so many newspaper reports is because the good people of the church are taking action against the criminals. Wilso knows nothing more than you and I can read in the papers. He pretends that these matters cause him great suffering while delighting in them because it rationalises his own prejudice. He is a humbug.
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2004 12:13 am
Maybe the anger and hatred that Wilso displays is due to some experiences in his past.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2004 12:31 am
You can continue your baiting all you like. Not gonna work.

Unlike you guys, I actually care about what's happening to these children.
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2004 12:37 am
Wilso wrote:

Unlike you guys, I actually care about what's happening to these children.

baseless - your anger and bias cloud your rationality. Does your hostility prove anything? On what basis - can you say or prove you care more?
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2004 12:38 am
Now I'm off to have dinner with my family, and my two beautiful neices, who thankfully, will NEVER have any exposure to these sick weirdo's, and their ancient superstitions.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2004 01:05 am
husker,

That's low. It's the second time on this thread that that kind of ad hominem is used that I can recall.

Doesn't anyone else think it untoward?

Let's take a different scenario. Let's say a woman is arguing stridently against rape and her opponent decides to use the ad hominem of "maybe you were raped huh?"

It's usually just a meaningless, if pernicious, ad hominem.

But what if this happens to be true? Would that make you feel any better? Does deriding the individual for having endured such an act score you some points?

In short, I don't think Wilso's hyperbolic distaste of Catholics is due to some dark experience of his. But that suggestion is either a meaningless ad hominem or a deeply malicious one, and I am very surprised at the casual way that kind of thing is being used here.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2004 01:16 am
Ditto.

I think that amateur shrinkerage, or psychological reductionism, is stupid, contemptuous and debasing - of its user.


However, Wilso - I ask you, in complete honesty, what are you hoping to achieve here?
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2004 01:28 am
I might be the one person here who blames the catholic church as fully as Wilso does/you do. I can go on and on re history. I can also go on and on in my own background with really good humans, some serious catholics.

Wilso, human life has giant vats of slime. It is fairly uniformly distributed, if you look among populations.

None of us, least of all me, are trying to get you to ignore abuse.

I would though request that I never see again giant red letters with f words as posts. I am sorry you can't put your anger into non expletive words, and wish that you would try - in other words than obscenities.

Please, Wilso, I know you are angry with reason. Could you phrase all this without expletives? If you want anyone to pay attention, you will.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2004 01:36 am
I guess I missed a component of the talk here, various back and forths and sideways. I spoke for myself w/o regard to ongoing argumentation.
0 Replies
 
 

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