When has religion irked you personally and why?

NeoGuin- One of the problems is, that people who think for themselves tend not to be "groupies", whereas Fundamentalist religions encourage people to think as a bloc.

I think that the only time that I would become involved is if I felt one of more of my rights were being abrogated, at the behest of some religious group. Then I would fight like a tiger.

Phoenix, think about it....right here in this thread, religion has irked you personally. I think maliagar dug his own grave on this thread

cav- Religion does not irk me. It is people who attempt to foist THEIR particular beliefs on me that irk me. To each his own, but stay out of MY face!

I hear ya, Phoenix....thankfully, Jews don't feel the need for that....unless, of course, you are a mother Oops, wrong thread, heh heh...gotta get back to Hebonics....

My personal problem with maliagar is not his opinions, beliefs, or even his prosletyzing. It is the fact that he is trying to turn this thread into a football match, Catholic Saints vs. Secular Humanists. That was not the intention, and I want this to get back on track. If maliagar wants to start a new thread regarding that subject, feel free.

I don't fit in the bloc group - thanks but no thanks!

Phoenix:

The quote from Nedimer(sp) I think applies very well to your thinking.

And all I'm asking for is ideas for the page, not for support.

That goes for everyone else.

When I've heard about Jehovah's witnesses who allow their children to die instead of recieving a blood transfusion. It's murder, pure and simple.

Yikes, ci, you just created a tidal wave! I don't think anyone has a large enough surfboard to ride it.

Wow!

And I thought I was already popular around here!!!

All of a sudden we have Phoenix32890, NeoGuin, Wilso, edgarblythe, JLNobody, ossobuco, CodeBorg, and husker coming to the aid of Craven (not to speak of Cavfancier, who just follows the crowd)...

I wonder who's the one who called for your help, guys! (I can almost guess who it was...)

Too bad that you're not really addressing the issues... just expressing your phobias ("fears" in Greek, you know?).

Nevermind... I'd love to deal with every single fear of yours, but hey, I have a family to support.

Craven already failed to provide evidence for his views... just like some other guy failed some time ago (his first name starts with an F and his last name with an A... Yep! You guessed it!).

Later on today I'll give you my summary of my discussion with Craven (for pedagogical purposes).

[Hey, Husker, I think you should really slow down a bit, and meditate on whose side you really are...]

Blessings.

:wink:

Did I just hear a chicken clucking?

Yeah, I think I did!

But it is a wise chicken who knows when to stay hunkered down!

Maliagar,

How have I failed to support my request to you to declare your implication that secular humanists don't exist?

I have not made declarations, I have been refuting one you are trying to make. It is a bold assertion and you are attempting to use a name-dropping game to put the burden of proof on anyone but yourself.

As to who "called" I sincerely doubt anyone did. Voices crying in the wilderness draw crowds only when the crowd is in the vicinity.

Instead of playing poor me just support your argument.

State it, the implication game is silly. Just out and say that you think religious people have moral high ground over secular people. If you do not think so then there is no argument and the name game was for naught. If you do, say so, and I'll take it from there.

truth
It seems to me that the Catholic practice of creating saints is little more than a device for attaching people more firmly to the church. Think of the catholic individual's identification with a saint: his or her "saints day (more important in Mexico than one's birth day). It also seems that the recent spate of canonizations is an attempt to combat the rise of protestantism in that country. Throughout southern Mexico Indians are leaving the Church and even their communities to form evangelical towns. I find most amusing the canonization of Juan Diego, the mythological Mexican Indian who supposedly made "first contact" with the Virgin Mary--and the only Mexican saint, good grounds for protest against Rome in that country. There are even good grounds for doubting Juan DIego's existence. In my judgement he was a propagandistic invention of Bishop Zumarraga, in the latter's attempt to justify the establishment of a New World catholic church affiliated with but not appended to the Church of Rome. But that's a long involved story. Secular Humanists do not beatify or canonize those among them who behave in "saintly" ways. But that should not be taken as an argument for the moral superiority of the Catholic Church (within which I was raised).

Phoenix -- thinking like a bloc? Like the Borg?

maliagar, tsk tsk....it's 'cavfancier' with a lower-case 'C', indicating my secular humanist humility. You write your name with a lower-case 'm', which deserves more humility on your part. Also, I don't remember the last time I followed a crowd, although if you call expressing an opinion around like-minded people 'following a crowd', I'll see you at the next Church picnic. Sometimes the appearance of 'following a crowd' is simply 'walking through the raindrops', but I doubt you see that. I am not 'backing up' Craven. I am just trying to get the thread back to it's original intent....personal stories about how religion has irked us. I am getting a bit of an 'irk' myself at the moment. As I stated before, if you wish to start a discussion about Christianity and Secular Humanists, and their heroes, you are free to do so. In fact, it might be good exercise for you to actually start a thread of your own, rather than simply pop your dogma into others. I for one would read with interest, and I truly enjoyed the stories you posted here, no joking. Perhaps that is the real difference between you and I, malleability of thought. :wink:

Re: truth


What a discovery! Of course! Saints are heroes, models, examples. And they do exactly that (among many other very interesting things).



Among other things...



And how do you move from "good grounds" (assuming that they are really good) to a "propagandistic invention"? With a little help of prejudice? :wink:



No? Let's see... Wouldn't you say that people like Madonna, Isaac Asimov, the ACLU, Carl Sagan, Jane Fonda, Whoppi Goldberg, and many others are prophets, guides, models, heroes, inspiration, "saints" for many people in our society of masses?



Why not?

:wink:

That's right. I posted relevant stories, but you didn't (even though you accepted the challenge). You just waited for somebody else to change your mind about the need to post counterexamples.

:wink:

maliagar - my meditation is already taken care of - irks me about you. I'm able to think and let think, I hope you can grasp that concept?????????? (don't flatter yourself) No one called me here and plenty of these folks are more than capable of handling or taking care of you alone, you've shown less than worthy skills. If you had any idea how many read and don't participate in the discussion, you might reconsider your entire witness in the matter.

maliagar, I never saw this as a challenge, just a discussion. Hence, I did enjoy the stories, but felt no need to take up any 'challenge'. I was hoping that those posts were not a challenge at all, but an expansion of an open dialogue. More fool me. Sure, I suggested we come up with some names, but that was sarcastic. It doesn't matter. I also noticed you truncated my quote.

truth
Joe, GASP!

Thank you for being graciously able to let me think!!!! You're a tolerant, generous man. :wink:

And to you guys, I apologize. The poverty of your arguments was my fault. It was me, who was not letting you think. :wink:

I promise from now on, to set your minds free and allow you to think...