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London: a Muslim city by 2021

 
 
muslim1
 
Reply Mon 2 Jul, 2007 10:49 am
Quote:

Is London's future Islamic? Michael Hodges

It's the capital's fastest growing religion, based on noble traditions and compassionate principles, yet Islam can still be tainted by mistrust and misunderstanding. Here Time Out argues that an Islamic London would be a better place

The noise from the expectant crowd hushed to a murmur as an open-backed lorry that had driven slowly up the Mall - known since the Islamic revolution of 2021 as The Way of the Martyrs - nudged its way through the thousands gathered in Mohammad Sidique Khan Square. On the lorry, two masked guards held a young man, black hood over his head; a quiver running through the material suggested he knew what was coming.

The lorry halted by the plinth that had once held Marc Quinn's sculpture ?'Alison Lapper Pregnant' - long since removed as an insult to decency - and was now the place of public execution. A rope noose attached to a wire cable hung from a mechanised hoist. The main doors of what had been the National Gallery flung open and an Imam walked down the steps of the new Institute of Islamic Jurisprudence, opened only a week before by Sultan Charles, Prince of Islam and protector of the faithful in England.

The official executioner placed a stepladder against the plinth. The lorry pulled up and the young man was pushed out, then forced up the ladder. The noose was forced over the condemned man's head. The crowd chanted ?'Allahu akbar' (God is greater than everything).The hoist driver put his finger on a green button … Okay, not really - that's a hysterical, right-wing nightmare of a future Muslim London: where an cruel alien creed is forced on a liberal city. A society where women are second-class citizens, same sex relationships a crime and Sharia law enforces terrible public disfigurement and death. But the reality is a long, long way from this dark vision.

For a start, Islam is not an alien religion to London. At the end of World War I the city sat at the heart of an Empire that had 160 million Muslim subjects, 80 million in India alone. London was the largest Islamic capital in the world. Forty years later and the end of the Empire, unrest and war and poverty in south Asia had lead to mass immigration to the mother country and London became a Muslim capital in another sense.

According to the 2001 census there are 607,083 Muslims living in London (310,477 men and 296,606 women). The majority of Muslims live in the east of the city and, by 2012, the Muslim Council of Britain estimates that the Muslim population of Tower Hamlets, Newham, Waltham Forest and Hackney will be 250,000. There are plans afoot (though no formal application has yet been submitted) to build the UKs biggest mosque - capable of welcoming 40,000 worshippers - near the 2012 Olympic site, a move which has prompted predictable outrage from some quarters. Consequently, Muslim disillionment with a reactionary and often ill-informed press is at an all time high.

But rather than fear the inevitable changes this will bring to London, or buy in to a racist representation of all Muslims as terrorists, we should recognise both what Islam has given this city already, and the advantages it would bring across a wide range of areas in the future.

Public health
On the surface, Islamic health doesn't look good: the 2001 census showed that 24 per cent of Muslim women and 21 per cent of Muslim men suffered long-term illness and disability. But these are factors of social conditions rather than religion. In fact, Islam offers Londoners potential health benefits: the Muslim act of prayer is designed to keep worshippers fit, their joints supple and, at five times a day, their stomachs trim. The regular washing of the feet and hands required before prayers promotes public hygiene and would reduce the transmission of superbugs in London's hospitals.

Alcohol is haram, or forbidden, to Muslims. As London is above the national average for alcohol-related deaths in males, with 17.6 per 100,000 people (Camden has 31.6 per 100,000 males), turning all the city's pubs into juice bars would have a massive positive effect on public health. Forbid alcohol throughout the country, and you'd avoid many of the 22,000 alcohol-related deaths and the £7.3 billion national bill for alcohol-related crime and disorder each year.

Ecology
?'The world is green and beautiful,' said the prophet Muhammad, ?'and Allah has appointed you his guardian over it.' The Islamic concept of halifa or trusteeship obliges Muslims to look after the natural world and Muhammad was one of the first ever environmentalists, advocating hima - areas where wildlife and forestry are protected. So we could expect more public parks under Islam, but halifa also applies to recycling: in 2006, 12,000 Muslims attended a series of sermons at the East London Mosque explaining the theological evidence for a link between behaving in an environmentally sustainable way and the Islamic faith.

Education
Presently, Muslim students perform less well than non-Muslim students. In inner London, 37 per cent of 16 to 24-year-old Muslims have no qualifications (the figure for the general population of the same age and location is 25 per cent). When it comes to university education the picture is equally gloomy: 16 to 24-year-old Muslims are half as likely to have degree level or above qualification than other inner London young people.

Again, social factors rather than religion have led to this state of affairs. Young Muslims in London are often of south Asian origin and therefore more likely to live in households where English is not the first language, more likely to encounter racism (both intentional and unintentional) during their education, and more likely to suffer from poverty and bad housing conditions.

But Tahir Alam, education spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain, claims Muslim children do better in their own faith schools than in the mainstream state sector: ?'Muslim schools have their own distinct ethos. They use the children's faith and heritage as primary motivators to provide the backdrop for their education and behaviour. This ethos is consistent with the messages that children are getting at home, so it is a very coherent operation between the home and the school.'

If Islam became the dominant religion in London the same ethos could be applied to schooling across swathes of underprivileged and deprived areas of the city. This could have a revolutionary effect on educational achievement and, perhaps just as importantly, general levels of discipline and self-respect among London's young people. While controversy rages over faith schools, there are 37 Muslim schools in London. As of 2004, only five were state schools, but there is growing pressure to bring more into the state sector which, according to Alam, will ?'help raise achievement for many sectors of the Muslim community. Many private Muslim schools are under-resourced and if they can be brought into the state sector this valuable experience can be extended to more children.'

Food
Application of halal (Arabic for ?'permissable') dietary laws across London would free us at a stroke from our addiction to junk food, and the general adoption of a south Asian diet rich in fruit juice, rice and vegetables with occasional mutton or chicken would have a drastic effect on obesity, hyperactivity, attention deficit disorders and associated public health problems. As curry is already Londoners' and the nation's favourite food (see our Brick Lane food feature), it would be a relatively easy process to encourage the adoption of such a diet. Not eating would be important as well. The annual fasting month of Ramadan instils self-discipline, courtesy and social cohesion. And Londoners would benefit philosophically and physically from even a short period when we weren't constantly ramming food into our mouths.

Inter-faith relations
In an Islamic London, Christians and Jews - with their allegiance to the Bible and the Talmud - would be protected as ?'peoples of the book'. Hindus and Sikhs manage to live alongside a large Muslim population in India, so why not here? Although England has a long tradition of religious bigotry against, for instance, Roman Catholics, it is reasonable to assume that under the guiding hand of Islam a civilised accommodation could be made among faith groups in London. This welcoming stance already exists in the capital in the form of the City Circle (see Yahya Birt interview), which encourages inter-faith dialogue and open discussion.

Arts
Some of the finest art in London is already Islamic. The Jameel Gallery at the V&A houses ?'ceramics, textiles, carpets, metalwork, glass and woodwork, which date from the great days of the Islamic caliphate of the eighth and ninth century' up until the turn of the last century. Or take a free daily tour of the Addis Gallery of Islamic art (at the British Museum). London-based Nasser David Khalili, an Iranian-born Jew, has amassed what is considered to be the world's largest private collection of Islamic art. Islamic influences have also flourished in other areas of the arts, with novelists, comedians (Birmingham-born Shazia Mirza was an instant hit on the London circuit), and music (from rappers Mecca2Medina on, to the less in-your-face Yusuf Islam).

Social justice
Each Muslim is obliged to pay zakat, a welfare tax of 2.5 per cent of annual income, that is distributed to the poor and the needy. If the working population of London, 5.2 million, was predominantly Muslim this would produce approximately £3.2bn each year. More importantly, everyone would be obliged to consider those Londoners who haven't shared their good fortune. London would become a little less cruel.

Race relations
Under Islam all ethnicities are equal. Once you have submitted to Allah you are a Muslim - it doesn't matter what colour you are. End of story.


Michael Hodges, Tue Jun 5 2007


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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jul, 2007 10:52 am
well yeah like totally awesome. Islam rules. So, muslim1 how long have you been a Mormon?
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jul, 2007 10:54 am
dyslexia wrote:
well yeah like totally awesome. Islam rules. So, muslim1 how long have you been a Mormon?


Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jul, 2007 10:55 am
"Race relations
Under Islam all ethnicities are equal. Once you have submitted to Allah you are a Muslim - it doesn't matter what colour you are. End of story."

What happens if I do not "submitt" to Allah? End of me?
0 Replies
 
The Pentacle Queen
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jul, 2007 02:18 pm
Nooooooooo.
I would be really pissed off if this happened. Really.

I don't have anything against muslims, lets get that straight.
But please don't try and change England!
I don't think our people would have it, and that may cause more division and tension that aready lies.

When I think of traditional London I think of the Queen, Buckingham Palace, red busses, phone booths, westminster. I think I am completely justified in wanting it to stay that way.

I will never 'submit to Allah' because I believe he doesn't exist.
However I appreciate it as part of EASTERN religion, just as I apprecaite Christainity as our traditional faith.

The only benefit I can see of London becoming muslim is maybe those F*ckers would stop bombing us.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jul, 2007 02:58 pm
Re: London: a Muslim city by 2021
muslim1 wrote:
Race relations
Under Islam all ethnicities are equal. Once you have submitted to Allah you are a Muslim - it doesn't matter what colour you are. End of story.


One word. Darfur!!.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jul, 2007 03:20 pm
Re: London: a Muslim city by 2021
mesquite wrote:
. . . One word. Darfur!!.
Appaently submission is evidenced by the flies gathering around one's corpse.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jul, 2007 06:42 pm
Re: London: a Muslim city by 2021
Muslim1, why did you headline this thread, London: a Muslim city by 2021? Rather inflammatory title, isnt it?

Note that the article you posted was not titled that - in fact, it quickly makes short shrift of the vision of an "Islamic revolution of 2021": reality is indeed "a long, long way" from anything like that.

The article even provides the numbers to disprove such visions:

Quote:
According to the 2001 census there are 607,083 Muslims living in London (310,477 men and 296,606 women).

The same Census found that the total population of London was 7,172,000. So all of 8,5% of London's population was Muslim.

How in heaven's name would you propose to go from there to "a Muslim city" by 2021?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jul, 2007 06:55 pm
Re: London: a Muslim city by 2021
nimh wrote:
. . . How in heaven's name would you propose to go from there to "a Muslim city" by 2021?
By the sword?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jul, 2007 07:01 pm
Yeah, murdering six million Londoners.. right
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jul, 2007 09:25 pm
nimh wrote:
Yeah, murdering six million Londoners.. right
We might consider that an insane goal, but . . .
0 Replies
 
Talkactive
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jul, 2007 04:57 am
neologist wrote:
nimh wrote:
Yeah, murdering six million Londoners.. right
We might consider that an insane goal, but . . .


Hello Neo!

Where are you? You stated in another thread that you would answer questions but disappear, how does that come?


In question of the fundamentalistic Muslims goal, it is nothing compared with what the Watchtower Society teach, the organization behind Jehovahs Witnesses, that billions of people shall die in Armageddon, only some few elite Jehovahs Witnesses shall go to heaven and the rest about 10 million shall live forever on earth. The reast of more than 6 billion people shall be destroyed in Armageddon.

The difference between the religious movements are that the fundamentalistic Muslims takes it literally, which means that it is by humans and the religious leaders behind Jehovahs Witnesses, that it is by God.

They predicted first that Armageddon would be in 1914. When 1914 - 1919 have passed by, it was then moved to 1925... and then 1975.

When nothing happened in all these years, they have predicted in the name of God, as a false prophet, in accordance to Deuteronomy 18:20-22:

18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?

18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Then it should be when the 1914 generation has ended. They have now postponed it to be around 2030. The time of the largest Holocaust in the whole world history, in spite of what Christ Jesus stated in Matthew 24:36; John 3:16-18; 12:44-50

24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.

12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.


By the way it is interesting to be aware of, the meaning of being a Muslim means, a person who has surrendered to God.

If the fundamentalistic Muslims, Imams and the rank and file really like to be Muslims in accordance to the real meaning of a Muslim, how does it then harmonize with that Allah=God is merciful and is against and will punish them who kill other people, among them children and women and why aren't real Muslims going to take stand agains them who call themselves Muslims, which kills women and children?

Why doesn't real Muslims issue "Fatwas" against all those who kills women and children instead of being silent, if they really mean that punishment has to be done by humans and not by God?

It seems to be more and more true that all religion is a snare and a racket, which are responsible for all killings of innocent people, directly or indirectly, by doctrines issued by men!

It is therefore interesting to read What Christ Jesus stated in John 8:42-44:

8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.



Ps. Even Muslims believe in Christ Jesus as a Prophet and in the Scriptures, Tewrat, Zebur and Ingels. Almaida, Surra 5 eia 48-50!
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jul, 2007 05:11 am
How charming, a Muslim fanatic who will kill for the love of Allah, and a "Christian" fanatic who wants to see JWs killed for the love of Jesus--and now, has hit upon the happy solution of having the Muslims kill the JWs. Welcome to the rubber room.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jul, 2007 05:17 am
neologist wrote:
nimh wrote:
Yeah, murdering six million Londoners.. right
We might consider that an insane goal, but . . .

Oh Im sure there are insane people somewhere who'd consider it a 'good' goal, but it's insane to presuppose that there is any chance in hell of it actually happening.

Without intending any disrespect for the victims of terrorism so far, you wouldnt be talking a car bomb or even a set of bombs on the underground here: six million - thats the number of Jews the Nazis killed, over a period of five or six years, using an extensive, industrialised system of extermination with massive camps across Central Europe. Just doesnt apply.

Theyd have to use a nuclear bomb of significant size - whereas up till now, the X number of explosive devices used by fundamentalist terrorists hasnt gone beyond the level of nails and cellphones. I'm very sceptical about the risk of these terrorists using WMD of such a kind: from using boxcutters on a plane to petrol bombs in the aborted attacks this weekend, Islamist terrorism has been a very low-tech affair. There's no reason to suspect they'd be halfway capable of handling anything in such an order of a mega-number of times more sophisticated.

Anyway, muslim1 wasnt of course talking about slaughter - he was implying that demographic change would make London a muslim city by 2021. Barring the evacuation of millions of existing residents, thats just statistically impossible.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jul, 2007 09:02 am
nimh wrote:
neologist wrote:
nimh wrote:
Yeah, murdering six million Londoners.. right
We might consider that an insane goal, but . . .

Oh Im sure there are insane people somewhere who'd consider it a 'good' goal, but it's insane to presuppose that there is any chance in hell of it actually happening. . .
Well, my tongue was in my cheek. But it is uncomfortable to keep it there. It makes the coffee run down the front of my shirt.

Yes, of course, you are right. The Idea of an Islamic London is absurd by any direction of conjecture.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jul, 2007 09:11 am
Talkactive wrote:
Hello Neo!
Where are you? You stated in another thread that you would answer questions but disappear, how does that come?
It comes from me having tired of your rambling rhetoric. Since you ask the same questions over and over, what is the sense of me repeating the same answers over and over? JWs have never claimed perfection for themselves, only for God and his word.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jul, 2007 11:42 am
neologist wrote:
Well, my tongue was in my cheek. But it is uncomfortable to keep it there. It makes the coffee run down the front of my shirt.

Oh OK! Sorry about that. You dont wanna know how many people say that kind of stuff and mean it..
0 Replies
 
Talkactive
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jul, 2007 01:59 pm
neologist wrote:
Talkactive wrote:
Hello Neo!
Where are you? You stated in another thread that you would answer questions but disappear, how does that come?
It comes from me having tired of your rambling rhetoric. Since you ask the same questions over and over, what is the sense of me repeating the same answers over and over? Jw's have never claimed perfection for themselves, only for God and his word.


Hello Neo!

Good to hear lifesign from you.

The reason for asking you is because you continue with the Watchtower nonsense in different threads, about their doctrines and ban on blood, which have sent thousands of your fellow believers and their children into a premature death, thats why you still got specific questions from the scriptures and real life.

Pls. answer Elihu, Telelogist and me in the thread http://www.able2know.com/forums/about98787-0-asc-130.html

If you find it to complicated to stand up and really describe the Watchtower Societys flickering "new light", you are not alone and have my full compassion, since their doctrine has no anchoring at all in the Scriptures and real life, since it is simply doctrines of men, making the blood to an idol more important than the life itself.

What you maybe can and will, everytime you post about the Watchtower Society's ban and hypocrisy on blood, I hope at least, is if you will take in consideration and have in mind, everytime you spread their doctrines, what if someone die, based at your teaching, have you ever thought of the consequesces, that you can be held responsible against God, which I really hope you will put before men and a man made organization? Psalm 146:3-5!

At last how can you find such an excuse for your religious leaders, that they have never claimed to be perfect, when their doctrines have sent thousands and other thousands of their members and children into a premature death, based at their ban on vaccinations as the act of Satan, Organtransplantations as cannibalism and the donors personality was transferred to the receiver and that a transfusion of blood was equal to eat blood, even that it only replaces what the blood was designed to do.

What about the moralic aspect, when the Watchtower Society allow their members to be drained for whole blood, to be stored and treated for several days and again, as whole blood be injected, when they at the same time refuse their members to store their own blood before a planned surgery and not to forget take the advantage of donors blood and to be used for the accepted fractions but at the same time refuse to give blood, which even could save their fellow members lives!

To You Setanta, pls. don't put any wrong interpretations in my posts. I have never encourage anybody to harm anybody, even members of the Watchtower Society but only raised a question why Imams and Muslims don't issue a "Fatwa" against those who call themselves for Muslims and blow up themselves, woman and children, through that manifest that they don't accept all the killings they are responsible for, in accordance to what comes forth in the Quran, when they at the same time are very quick to issue fatwas over e.g. Salman Rushdie or others, whom I believe have no blood at their hands.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jul, 2007 02:16 pm
nimh wrote:
neologist wrote:
Well, my tongue was in my cheek. But it is uncomfortable to keep it there. It makes the coffee run down the front of my shirt.

Oh OK! Sorry about that. You dont wanna know how many people say that kind of stuff and mean it..
Yeah. Scary, eh?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jul, 2007 02:22 pm
Talkactive wrote:

The reason for asking you is because you continue with the Watchtower nonsense in different threads . . .
You are a member in good standing and may participate in these threads.
0 Replies
 
 

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