AAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!

Can I use this for a generalized "ARGGGGGHH" and rant?

I have been doing my damndest to meet cool deaf people here. I can communicate with hearing people, but it's so much more difficult, and I just LIKE signing/ feeling part of the deaf community.

I've met several people who I am friendly with, but have been looking for someone to be a FRIEND -- ya know, beyond chit-chat (chit-chat is good, but I like to have the chit-chat layer of friends and then a few really good friends.) I've gotten closer and closer to one woman -- we have some big differences, especially in parenting style, but I've had modest hopes as we continue to get to know each other.

Last night, I hosted a book club that she attended, with some other friendly acquaintances. As it happens, everyone who came was blonde, WASPy types. We were discussing what book to choose next, and started talking about "chick books" -- I mentioned "The Divine Secrets of the Ya-Ya Sisterhood" as an example. This person said, "Oh, I HATED that book. Just hated it. I am NOT interested in what a bunch of Jewish women have to say."



It just made me sad. I let it go, and realized there are a lot of things I have let go in the interest of not letting "little" things get in the way of enjoying companionship with this group of deaf women I have found. But this was also kind of a signal moment -- f*** 'em, you know? I'll hang out with them, but I'm going to stop worrying about their friendship. If I have no close deaf friends, so be it. I have some good hearing friends, and the work involved in understanding them is worth knowing that they are basically intelligent, interesting people.

I wish I'd been there.
I would have liked to ask her what is different about what Jewish women have to say.
Maybe recipes...?

That was shitty.
I wish you'd turned the place out.

Yeah. It was at the very end of the evening, the sozlet had just returned from an outing with E.G. and needed to be put to bed, etc. I did say something, I forget what -- some kind of "what are you talking about?" question -- and she said "just the way they talk, [blah blah blah sign], [shudder] I just didn't like it."

(She knows I'm Jewish, but forgot?)

(Thanks for having my back, tho. I wish you'd been there, too.)

We woulda cleaned the floor with 'em!

That was shitty. Sorry it turned out that way. It's so hard to decide, sometimes, what you're willing to subject yourself to in order to expand friendship circles. My two close girlfriends and I have discussed that and have decided that that's probably why we don't have a larger circle of girlfriends. (shrug)

Shrug indeed. Ah well. I actually feel relieved, having made the decision. I know I've done my best. And I'm probably going to be moving next year, anyway. (Shrugs again.)

Sozobe
I would have been all over the bitch ;-)

Hee hee. It does make me feel better to imagine all of you folks materializing in a "Star Trek" shimmer behind me, arms crossed and glaring, saying "WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY??" in unison.

HA! Much better.

Sounds like we got ourselves a bad-ass girl gang here! heehee

Hehe. Girl gang. Guess I'd better buy my fanny pack... :wink:
I was thinking about friendships.

I don't go around, making sure I confront everybody about their biases. Sometimes, all you have to do to ruin a growing friendship is not laugh at a joke--or not nod in agreement to a biased comment, or defend a person that is being gossiped about. It makes people uneasy--and you are excluded. I bet I come off 'superior'.

Really, being uncomfortable with, or not participating in gossip is enough to isolate a person. Socializing is so complicated. Like sozobe said-- (paraphrasing) sometimes you have to let go of principles or closely held beliefs as pay-off for maintaining relationships. If you are a little rigid with your self-imposed standards--this can leave you quite alone in the world.

I go through periods of questioning my MO from time to time. Should I just give up what is important to me, and sign on to play the game...? I really don't like the game. Like sozobe said (again)-- You will find some qualities in others that make you feel--Hey, this is the group of people for me... and then you get blindsided by a reality about them, and have to choose between dropping them, or 'going along'...

Do either of you have any friends, who have very different views than you do? If so, do you think the benefits of the friendship outweigh what you have to do to 'go along'? Interested in related opinion.

Sofia I am very very opposed to hunting and a friend is not - actually my husband also is not.

With husband we argue!!!!

With friend we agree to differ - her other qualities are great. Also she doesn't hunt, just doesn't disagree with it as she comes from a horse riding background where it is ther norm.

I'm not against pest control - just against sadism and cruelty dressed up as pest control.

oh dear this may open a whole can of worms

Oooh! Montana has serious anti-hunting issues.

I admit I hate the thought of hunting, but it's not a big issue to me. I wouldn't want to hear the gory details, but I think I could block it out. (Repression works for me!)

I think I should just let go of my anti-gossiping plank. I guess it wouldn't hurt to much to join in with some harmless "Oh! Really!" Maybe, I was just around the wrong people at work. If they weren't gossiping, their mouths weren't moving. It turned me off. Possibly, I'm a little unrealistic where this is concerned. (I used to listen to my Church Lady mother denigrate 'her friends' to her 'other friends' on the phone constantly. <And, then call the other friends and denigrate them...> I think all the hypocracy led to my rigid stand against gossip... I once heard her gossiping about me. Therapy is calling my name.

Yeah, I know what you mean about feeling like you're coming off as being "superior" and I think I do too, sometimes. I've try to decide how to handle gossip or just some crazy comment like the one Sozobe's friend made, and you're right -- it's so difficult. I do have friends who have very different views. A couple who are very dear to my husband and I, who we've been friends with for years, are hard-core republicans (gasp! ) but aside from political differences, we have a lot in common. We all respect each other's differences in political opinion enough to either debate respectfully or keep our mouths shut. We don't expect each other "go along" because we fortunately can see the benefit of having friends with differing opinions, and the fun we have with the things we have in common is more important.

But on the other hand, I am friendly with a few of people (women and men) who are good at heart and a lot of times fun to be with but who are incessant gossips. When the phone rings and I see that it's them calling, and roll my eyes trying to decide whether to answer or not, I wonder how ethical my own intentions are in listening to their gossip (and yes, sometimes participating and then being ashamed about it) when I disagree with them. Am I using them just so I'll be that much less alone?

Sometimes just changing the subject helps, but then I'm always wondering whether they're gossiping about me, which adds that element of mistrust, and I'm not sure that's something that can exist in a true friendship. When it comes to "going along" with something about the group that you disagree with, there will always be a time when you can't fake it anymore, and then the friendship will be doomed anyway. So I figure that it's best to be honest from the beginning. I know who is my true friend that way, anyway.

But like you said, it's all a game. I don't like it either. I think that there are some groups that you have to fake it with, like for business, but when it comes to making real friends, honesty is the best policy.

I've always wanted to join a bad ass girl gang.... I'd be taken advantage of every few minutes... sigh

Doh, did I just say that out loud?

Have been thinkin' on your post, Sofia. Interesting issues.

Basically it comes down to the different strata of friendship, I think. I'm willing to put up with a certain amount of idiocy for the sake of an otherwise fun, rewarding acquaintance. I just will keep certain walls up, and won't let the friendship deepen. (There are levels of idiocy I won't put up with, though, at all.)

I'm currently going through another dilemma -- I mentioned here somewhere that I wanted to get the sozlet together with the little boy across the street, and wasn't sure how to go about doing that. We did, and it has been going great. We were invited to the little boy's little brother's birthday party, and all hung out, and had a really good time. They are much nicer/ more interesting than we realized. We found out that they have made some of the same, rather unconventional parenting choices we had, the kind of thing that you really hesitate to bring up and then are enormously relieved when they say, "Oh, we do that too!" (They have done all of the bringing-up so far.)

But now we find that we're a little paralyzed about continuing to find out more about them. Things have gone so well so far, and they're right across the street, and we don't really want to find out something that would be a deal-breaker. At the same time, everything we have found out so far has been, "D'oh! I wish I'd known that 2 years ago -- we could have been talking about it this whole time!"

So we're just proceeding cautiously. Haven't gotten to religion or politics yet. The guy was a philosophy major in college, so that's encouraging.

LibertyD--
Thanks a million for the thoughtful response.
Sometimes, I wonder just how 'far out there' I am, where this is concerned. I guess there are plenty of people that don't think too differently that I do.

I just have a tendency to cut people out of my life sort of abruptly. I think I'll start working a little harder--maybe giving up a little more--to cultivate a friendly acquaintance into a friend. I mean, it won't kill me. :wink:

Soz--
Thanks for the entry. Its great that its working out, and neat that they were next door all the time. This is why I've decided not to let my current isolation stand. I know there are like-minded people somewhere in this town! I'm going to start out--and I'll report my progress.

They don't have to be passionate about social fairness--I'm just going for tolerant. Just finding someone, who doesn't hate Arabs and 'homos' and uses Nigger on a daily basis would be great. (You'd be amazed!)

When should we pencil in our ritual, sexual abuse of Craven? :wink:

Pencil, eh? Kinky.

Good luck, Sofia!