Working Together: Can We Restore the World?

I think that mankind could possibly sort things out OK, as long as we first found a cheap renewable substitute for oil, and got rid of religion altogether.

Re: Working Together: Can We Restore the World?


Seing as religion is the cause of many of todays problems/wars (maybe not the underlying problem, but its way up there), I certainly couldn't imagine religion being the answer.

One step towards restoring the world would be to lower our consumption.

Well, this one flew over like the proverbial lead balloon.

To restore the world implies that things were once hunky-dory, and then went downhill--but that we can make nice, and go back to the golden age . . . dogs living with cats . . . the lion lays down with the lamb . . . the televangelist reveals his secrets to mere dull-witted capitalists . . .

Of course, what was once said golden age is in the theological eye of the preacher . . . and in what a new age of peace and freedom will consist would also be in the eye of the preacher. So, you're going to have particularist theological imposition, and the whole cycle will start all over again.

How about we restore the golden age of the robber baron? I know a castle i can pick up for a song . . .

My, you've been busy this morning, Set. Too much coffee?

Come to think of it, I didn't realize that the title of McGee's sermon implied a golden age of sorts. I was hoping to elicit a discussion about how some of our pressing world problems might be solved, particularly terrorism, though not to exclude others.

I'm not going to take up sermon reading at this late date in my life. But you might want to read the sermon again, to discover just what it is which is going to be restored.

Read his screed? Hardly. Just the abstract was more than enough. I had hoped to let this thread percolate for a while, but folks seem to be more interested in Chubby Checker's dance.


I suppose I should just start a thread entitled "Can the world's religions provide a solution to terrorism".

My response to such a question would be: only if they get enough of the fanatics worked up that they all kill one another off.

So long as there is no collateral damage.

To my mind, religion, any religion, is all about power and control.

Some religious leaders honestly believe that their efforts to spread their religion and increase the numbers of their followers are done purely for the glory of their particular god.
In this category I would possibly place quite a few, if not all, of the various ayatollahs, half of the Popes and some of the various leaders of christian sects which are non catholic.
Although they all realise that total control over their masses is necessary, they honestly believe that they are carrying out their god's will by imposing that control.

Other religious "leaders" knew/know full well that they stood/stand to gain massive wealth and/or political influence by their actions, and either pretend that they are doing it for their god (televangelists, weird cultists like christ scientists etc), or they know that they are pretty much untouchable and just enjoy the proceeds quite openly (the Borgia popes and Henry 8th spring to mind).

Whatever their own motivational drive may be, when it all comes out in the wash, if there is more than one of these organisations who are primarily devoted to power, control and expansion, the world will always experience conflict, as their motivational tool taps directly into a basic human drive. Tribalism.
My band is right, your band is wrong and we'll fight you and keep on fighting you until we've won. All for the glory of god, of course. :wink:

There would still be conflict even if all trace of religion were removed, but religion, primarily the two main high profile religions of islam and christianity, ensure that millions of people over the globe rally to their own personal "god" flag.
If only a tiny proportion of these camp followers can be whipped up into such a righteous frenzy as to be counted as a fanatic, willing to do anything for their god, then there is an exceedingly good chance that the flames of terrorism and war will be kept alight in perpetuity.


Without the awful destructive distraction of religion, the human race would then only have the small problem of setting and recognising their various territorial borders, and then being fair with one another. (vision of a snowball in hell springs to mind :wink: )

True, because the root cause of conflict is the tendency of people to identify with their particular tribe, race, culture, belief system, geographical location, political affiliation, etc. When the majority of people derive their sense of self from their personal physical, mental and emotional forms, they become unaware of their connectedness with others and with the source of life. This forgetfulness is original sin.

We can restore the world by transcending ego identification, by experiencing our identity with wholeness. We do this by bringing our awareness beyond thought to the primal state of consciousness. Spiritual practice brings the mind to silence. In that silence we experience a sacred space. With continued practice there is a personal transformation, a spiritual awakening. One begins to identify with the inner consciousness, the sacred space, and feels a greater connection with all beings. Life is lived more from the heart than from the head. There is greater joy and acceptance in daily life.

When sufficient numbers of people experience a spiritual awakening, the world will change. This will happen because it must happen. We cannot continue in our destructive ways, given the power of modern technology, without destroying the earth. We will evolve or die. There is a new consciousness emerging that goes beyond religious dogma and rigid belief systems. The conflict we see in the world at present is due to the struggle between the old consciousness and the new. Religion will gradually be replaced with a more spiritual consciousness, not based on the mind, but on real self-transcending experience. A new earth will emerge.

Interesting. A bit like the hippie era all over again, maybe?

Ifeelfree,

On another thread we have discussed the level of "maturity" required for the transcendental solution. All evidence points to the statistical absence of such maturity. Indeed one esoteric writer (Gurdjieff) even suggested "knowledge" is not for all ....that it is subject to some cosmological dependency rules in which "higher" levels feed off "lower" levels of "being".

That may have been the case in the past. However, humanity has reached a point where it must go beyond the "old consciousness" of narrow-minded identification with tribe, race, religion, political party, etc. Modern technology and weaponry endanger the survival of the human race unless a more mature understanding develops. We will evolve because we have to, and because modern education, communication, travel, etc., enables anyone to access the cumulative knowledge of mankind, including all of the recorded sacred spiritual wisdom. We are living in a time in which the higher spiritual teachings which were once only available to a few, are now being made available to everyone. Of course, not everyone will be able to see this. However, enough people will take up real spiritual practice and experience a personal transformation of consciousness that it will uplift all of humanity. A more enlightened understanding will, and must, come to the human community. It will take time and we will probably undergo a lot of conflict and suffering before it becomes completely obvious.

While that was a bracing example of vague, "feel good" propaganda, i believe it fails completely to address the issue of in what consciousness consists.

Spoken like a true reductionist! Consciousness is the "stuff" that we are made of. It is the Self, the infinite, eternal source of all life. It is ineffable. It can only be know through direct experience. That sounds like a paradox -- how can I not experience my own Self? The answer is that you are mistaking what is not yourself for your Self. The Self is know by the Self through the Self. Only by letting go of what is not yourself, can you experience consciousness in its pure state. You must transcend the thinking mind. When thought ceases, in that instant there is inner silence. In that silence you feel the bliss, love, fullness, and freedom of pure consciousness, unbounded, eternal, beyond words, beyond thought, beyond all relative forms. By transcending the thinking mind (such as in deep meditation) you can know consciousness.

No, i am not. Nor am i willing to accept any of the simple-minded and circular "reasoning" which you are peddling.

It was a rhetorical "you". We are all mistaking our true identity to some degree. It is the human condition. Don't take it personally.

That is because you are stuck in the conceptual mind. The discriminating intellect is necessary and useful for operating in the world. It cannot take you very far in the spiritual realm. Your original question was what does consciousness consist of? My answer is that consciousness must be experienced directly, in its pure form, to really understand it. If that answer is unacceptable to you, then you are free to debate about it, or believe what you will.

Lfeelfree,

What "evidence" do you have that transcendental awareness is on the rise ? Spiritual leaders such as Krishnamurti preached such a message at the UN assembly decades ago yet here we are in the age of the internet which appears to have done more to spread the poison of divergent extremism than it has to assist convergence of "mature thinking".