kate4christ03 wrote:so Christ was lying when he said we will receive everlasting life,
Yep.
kate4christ03 wrote:because I choose to follow teachings that are 2000 yrs old and you choose those that aren't even 200 yrs old
Being trapped in a superstitious past is nothing to be proud of. It's actually sad and pitiful.
I used to be able to do the Limbo, when i was younger.
Now i'm not limber enough to limbo.
Such is life.
kate4christ03 wrote:so Christ was lying when he said we will receive everlasting life, or when he said he was going to his father's house to prepare rooms for us, or when he told the thief on the cross TODAY you will be with me in paradise??? I don't think so neo. sorry but we wont agree on this because I choose to follow teachings that are 2000 yrs old and you choose those that aren't even 200 yrs old.
Everlasting life: yes. That was promised to Adam and Eve and if they had not disobeyed they would still be here and we would have the Garden of Eden over the whole earth. Did you know that the Hebrew words for Garden of Eden are literally translated as paradise of pleasure?
I'm not denying that some are chosen for heavenly life to serve as kings and priests (Revelation 20:6). These are the "little flock" Jesus referred to in Luke 12:32.
But do you remember that Jesus said "In the house of my Father there are many abodes." (John 14:2). That would explain Jesus' words about John the Baptist spoken at Matthew 11:11. "Among those born of women there has not been raised up a greater than John the Baptist; but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is."
If you look at the bible as a whole, the doctrine of the immortal soul is not sustained.
Setanta wrote:I used to be able to do the Limbo, when i was younger.
Now i'm not limber enough to limbo.
Such is life.
Thanks for bringing the discussion around to its original intent, Set. I was a limber limboer myself, if you don't mind some bragging. Now I just crawl under on my belly. Even that is a chore.
neo there aren't two flocks within christianity. there is not a "little flock" consisting of 144,000 people including the founders of your religion, who will get heaven, and another flock which will get earth. Christ called his disciples little flock because they were his flock and they were little in number at that time. But you forget john 10:16 " ANd other sheep i have which are not of this fold, them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
those whom Christ is speaking of are the gentiles, Us. And we are all now One flock.
When a person dies they either go to heaven or hell. And babies, by GOd's grace go to heaven.
Quote:Everlasting life: yes. That was promised to Adam and Eve and if they had not disobeyed they would still be here
Still here?
What would they be posting on A2K?
Miller wrote:Quote:Everlasting life: yes. That was promised to Adam and Eve and if they had not disobeyed they would still be here
Still here?
What would they be posting on A2K?
Probably the virtues of a 1000 year wine cellar. Or, how we saved the world's largest string ball. No, maybe an itinerary of the places they've been. Sort of like a CI squared or cubed.
kate4christ03 wrote:neo there aren't two flocks within christianity. there is not a "little flock" consisting of 144,000 people including the founders of your religion, who will get heaven, and another flock which will get earth. Christ called his disciples little flock because they were his flock and they were little in number at that time. But you forget john 10:16 " ANd other sheep i have which are not of this fold, them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
those whom Christ is speaking of are the gentiles, Us. And we are all now One flock.
When a person dies they either go to heaven or hell. And babies, by GOd's grace go to heaven.
That all the sheep are a single flock does not preclude divisions.
As far as babies going immediately to heaven, you have left some very large spaces between your dots, Kate.
Quote:That all the sheep are a single flock does not preclude divisions
there is no scripture for this view. nor is there any scripture for the view that 144,000 will get heaven while the rest of Christ's followers get earth.
Quote:As far as babies going immediately to heaven, you have left some very large spaces between your dots, Kate.
much less than you have on your views.
i have given and i believe others have given you many verses that show a person who follows Christ goes immediate to heaven.
kate4christ03 wrote:Quote:That all the sheep are a single flock does not preclude divisions
there is no scripture for this view. nor is there any scripture for the view that 144,000 will get heaven while the rest of Christ's followers get earth.
Quote:As far as babies going immediately to heaven, you have left some very large spaces between your dots, Kate.
much less than you have on your views.
i have given and i believe others have given you many verses that show a person who follows Christ goes immediate to heaven.
Post a few here for the benefit of those who might not have seen the others.
kate4christ03 wrote:i have given and i believe others have given you many verses that show a person who follows Christ goes immediate to heaven.
What does "a person who follows Christ" mean? In other words, if a person professes to follow Christ, and believes in their heart that they follow Christ but, in a moment of weakness, they commit a mortal sin such as murder, do they still go to heaven? Even if they follow Christ, do they have to confess and be forgiven for such a sin before they can go to heaven? What if they die before they can ask forgiveness? Or, are they automatically forgiven for everything they do if they follow Christ so they get a pass on all their sins?
Think of the moral conundrums!
Quote:What does "a person who follows Christ" mean?
If you know anything about Christianity, then you must know that it is a religion of love. To follow Christ is to love your fellow man. It has nothing to do with mortal sins.
Miller wrote:Quote:What does "a person who follows Christ" mean?
If you know anything about Christianity, then you must know that it is a religion of love. To follow Christ is to love your fellow man. It has nothing to do with mortal sins.
Right. There are no small sins. After all, compared to the holocaust, Adam and Eve's sin might seem like a dietary indiscretion. But the latter plunged the whole world into misery.
Miller wrote:Quote:What does "a person who follows Christ" mean?
If you know anything about Christianity, then you must know that it is a religion of love. To follow Christ is to love your fellow man. It has nothing to do with mortal sins.
Yes, but Christians do commit sins. Even Christians who love their fellow man, on occasion do cause harm to others. I'm wondering about the repercussions to those fellow-man-loving Christians who, in a moment of weakness, cause harm to others. Are they automatically forgiven? Does that mean they get a pass for any sins they commit? Do they have to ask for forgiveness before it is given? What if they die before they have asked for forgiveness? How is a Christian who harms another different from a non-Christian who causes harm? Why would one go to heaven and the other go to hell? Or do some Christians go to heaven and some not?
IFeelFree wrote: . . . Or do some Christians go to heaven and some not?
Yes, but not in the way you seem to propose
Quote:If you know anything about Christianity, then you must know that it is a religion of love. To follow Christ is to love your fellow man. It has nothing to do with mortal sins.
actually Christ spoke many times on sin. He always forgive those that wanted forgiveness and he told them to stop whatever sin they were doing. To follow Christ is to beleive he is Gods son, our Savior and to repent of sin and make him Lord.
Quote:Yes, but Christians do commit sins. Even Christians who love their fellow man, on occasion do cause harm to others. I'm wondering about the repercussions to those fellow-man-loving Christians who, in a moment of weakness, cause harm to others. Are they automatically forgiven? Does that mean they get a pass for any sins they commit? Do they have to ask for forgiveness before it is given? What if they die before they have asked for forgiveness? How is a Christian who harms another different from a non-Christian who causes harm? Why would one go to heaven and the other go to hell? Or do some Christians go to heaven and some not?
Yes Christians do sin, we aren't perfect yet. When we sin, we are to repent. That means we are to ask forgiveness and we are to stop doing that sin.When a person becomes born again, they receive the Holy Spirit and by that Spirit we are sanctified, which means that even if we do screw up, we don't become unsaved. But knowing this doesn't give christians the license to sin, we are to follow Christ and die daily to sins. If a person is truly a christian, when they sin they will feel conviction from the Holy Spirit in them, and repent. And all christians go to heaven when they die.
Quote: If you know anything about Christianity, then you must know that it is a . . . And all christians go to heaven when they die.
But of course the meek will inherit the earth.
neo here are some verses on christians going to heaven.
Phil 3:20For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
John 14:2,3 In my father's house are many mansions, if it were not so, I would have told you. And if i go and prepare a place for you, i will come again and receive you
here are two on the immediate departure of christians to heaven.
2Cor 5:8 we are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
Luke 23: 42,43 Lord remember me when you come into your kingdom. And Jesus said to him," Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise
now neo i would like verses on your belief that there are two flocks within christianity; One consisting of 144,000 people who get heaven and get to rule, and the other faithful christians getting earth.
"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." (Genesis 1:28, KJV)
"But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. . . For those being blessed by him will themselves possess the earth,
But those upon whom evil is called by him will be cut off. . .The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
And they will reside forever upon it.'(Psalm 37:11,22,29)
"For the upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it. 22 As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it."(Proverbs 2: 21,22) [so much for the rapture, eh?]
"For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
[18] But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
[19] And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
[20] There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
[21] And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
[22] They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
[23] They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.(Isaiah 65 17:23, KJV)
"[5] Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." (Matthew 5:5, KJV)
As for those who do go to heaven:
"And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." (Revelation 5:10, KJV) Kings and priests over whom?
