The Universe, Expanding Beyond All Understanding

MonkeyMan09 wrote:

ok so tell me this there was nothing befofore the big bang not even time so where did this ball of super condensed matter come from in the first place..

I don't know.

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And you CAN'T know it. It is a meaningless question in the analytic philosopher's sense that it has no empirical basis.

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JLNobody wrote:

And you CAN'T know it. It is a meaningless question in the analytic philosopher's sense that it has no empirical basis.

Correct.

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JLNobody wrote:

And you CAN'T know it. It is a meaningless question in the analytic philosopher's sense that it has no empirical basis.

but theoreticly the the universe will stop expanding and once again go into the state before the big bang therefore disproving the theory that there was no time before the big bang and thus proving that there is ifinite ammount of time before and after this very infinite second.. but then again our mear minds cannot comprejend that logic.. i believe there is no time at all it is a mear projecting of our minds(brains) which has been to be faster then the speed oflight to project this illusion..

can u guys understand wut i am saying..

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MonkeyMan09 wrote:

JLNobody wrote:
And you CAN'T know it. It is a meaningless question in the analytic philosopher's sense that it has no empirical basis.

but theoreticly the the universe will stop expanding and once again go into the state before the big bang therefore disproving the theory that there was no time before the big bang and thus proving that there is ifinite ammount of time before and after this very infinite second.. but then again our mear minds cannot comprejend that logic.. i believe there is no time at all it is a mear projecting of our minds(brains) which has been to be faster then the speed oflight to project this illusion..

can u guys understand wut i am saying..

no

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Not me. But it might be your spelling.

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JLNobody wrote:

Not me. But it might be your spelling.

yeah suck at spelling.. but anyways wut im trying to say is where did anything come from in the first place. how did time start...???
could there be infinite time before and after us or is there no time at all?

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Monkeyman, I hope you do not look for the answer to your question, "where did anything come from in the first place?" In the Christian cop out that before anything there was God, the creator. One would then have to ask where did God come from? To say that His infinity is part of his nature just begs the question. It is an unanswerable question, like Why does anything at all exist? Why not nothing?

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ok here another question will we ever know the answer to my quesstions??

btw i understood everthing you said..

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I'm really bad at trying to imagine an expanding infinite universe, black holes and dark matter. They aren't concepts I can grasp at this time.

But, in reading the original post regarding humans pushing a rock uphill only to have it roll back down... and billions of years from now whoever exists will be back at the bottom of the hill starting to roll it up again...

Maybe there was someone before us that got it to the top and we have been rolling it up again. Why assume we haven't been here before?

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squinney wrote:

I'm really bad at trying to imagine an expanding infinite universe, black holes and dark matter. They aren't concepts I can grasp at this time.

But, in reading the original post regarding humans pushing a rock uphill only to have it roll back down... and billions of years from now whoever exists will be back at the bottom of the hill starting to roll it up again...

Maybe there was someone before us that got it to the top and we have been rolling it up again. Why assume we haven't been here before?

exactly a never ending cycle but when did it start?

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Quote:

but theoreticly the the universe will stop expanding

Nope. The current evidence points to a continued and unending expansion. Not only that, the galaxies are actually moving away from us at a quickening pace. There is already more space in space than there is matter (of any kind), in a couple of billion years Earthlings will stare out of their huge multiple eyes at an empty sky. (The moon will have already been mined down to a chunk of rock the size of Montana.)

Oo, here's a thought. Maybe at the 'edge' the universe curls under itself like a treadmill. Once it curves completely under, we start over.

Joe(I won't be there to see it)Nation

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A moon the size of Montana???

I'm gonna tell her you said that! Very Happy

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Joe Nation wrote:

Quote:
but theoreticly the the universe will stop expanding

Nope. The current evidence points to a continued and unending expansion. Not only that, the galaxies are actually moving away from us at a quickening pace. There is already more space in space than there is matter (of any kind), in a couple of billion years Earthlings will stare out of their huge multiple eyes at an empty sky. (The moon will have already been mined down to a chunk of rock the size of Montana.)

Oo, here's a thought. Maybe at the 'edge' the universe curls under itself like a treadmill. Once it curves completely under, we start over.

Joe(I won't be there to see it)Nation

but what is outside of theuniverse walls to enable it to keep expanding..??

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MonkeyMan09 wrote:

Joe Nation wrote:
Quote:
but theoreticly the the universe will stop expanding

Nope. The current evidence points to a continued and unending expansion. Not only that, the galaxies are actually moving away from us at a quickening pace. There is already more space in space than there is matter (of any kind), in a couple of billion years Earthlings will stare out of their huge multiple eyes at an empty sky. (The moon will have already been mined down to a chunk of rock the size of Montana.)

Oo, here's a thought. Maybe at the 'edge' the universe curls under itself like a treadmill. Once it curves completely under, we start over.

Joe(I won't be there to see it)Nation

but what is outside of theuniverse walls to enable it to keep expanding..??

an even better question would be ""What's yellow and dangerous?"
for which we do have an answer:
"shark-infested custard".

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MonkeyMan09 wrote:

exactly a never ending cycle but when did it start?

Our concepts of 'start' and 'end' only exist because of the passage of time.

Time is part of our Universe, so 'start' and 'end' only have a recognizable meaning within our Universe, not outside of it.

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The nature of nature is that it is always unspeakable, there is no universe to end or begin other than in our own minds, time is how we measure a clocks' accuracy to boil a perfect egg. There is a "perfect" egg, isn't there? Aristotle said there was, so it must be true.

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If our model of the Universe were perfect, it would be the Universe.

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Bingo, Dys: "The nature of nature is that it is always unspeakable, there is no universe to end or begin other than in our own minds, time is how we measure...."
Time and space are mental tools. I'm referring to our most basic means for organizing everyday consciousness/experience. I suppose theoretical physics has something equivalent to them. But they are certainly not the time and space notions the physicists use away from their theoretical work.

Let's be glad that we are asking the whens and hows of the universe's origin and not WHY.

Yes, Rosborne, models, like maps, are not what they refer to. And models must refer "heuristically" to only selected aspects of the realities they refer to; they are good to think with but not precise descriptions of the world.

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What's this about the multiverse, consisting of numerous universes with their own big bangs?

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The Universe, Expanding Beyond All Understanding

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