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Thu 31 May, 2007 03:38 am
Creativity and freedom
We are all born with a will to self-determination, a will to freedom. We all struggle to be independent; we all struggle with the internal and external forces that would constrict our urge to self-determination. This struggle for independence determines what type of person we become.
The adaptive typeneurotic type has a stronger will than does the adaptive type. Will is the word that Rank uses instead of the ego that Freud uses. The will acts as kind of a gyroscope and gatekeeper for the individual. It is the will that tells us to stop, and take time out while we decide what to do rather than reflexively responding to whatever the environment demands. The neurotic type has a will that struggles against both external and internal forces. They worry and fret about being too willful; society also chastises them for this powerful will.
The productive type tends to be the creative individual. These individuals tend to become satisfied with them self, they can create an ideal that acts as their North Star. Such individuals create themselves in tune with their internal logic and turn to creating change in the world they encounter.
Otto Rank, a Freud protégé, wrote extensively about creativity. Creativity consisted of joining the material with the spiritual and the individual with the universal
If we compare these types with Maslow hierarchy of needs we can see the relationship.
Maslow's hierarchy of needs:
1) Biological and Physiological (water, food, shelter, air, sex, etc.)
2) Safety (security, law and order, stability, etc.)
3) Belonging and love (family, affection, community, etc.)
4) Esteem (self-esteem, independence, prestige, achievement, etc.)
5) Self-Actualization (self-fulfillment, personal growth, realizing personal potential, etc.)
This hierarchy made us conscious of the obvious fact that we did not fret about the absence of self-esteem if we did not already have security nor did we worry about security if we did not have water to drink or air to breath.
I would conclude that Maslow's levels of 1 thru 3 speak to the adaptive type while level 4 applies to the neurotic types with level 5, the level of self-actualization refers to the productive type.
The pinnacle of needs Maslow labeled S-A (Self-Actualization). In "The Farther Reaches of Human Nature" 1971, Maslow speaks of these needs and he apparently (as far as I know) introduced this new concept S-A as in "mid-stream rather than ready for formulation into a final version".
Maslow said "The people I selected for my investigation were older people
When you select out for careful study very fine and healthy people
you are asking how tall can people grow, what can a human being become?"
coberst i enjoy reading your posts, i dont know if you read my utopian society post, but my thoughts are similar to what your wrote ( im just saying i came to the same conclusions! but in a different direction)
Keep em coming, you might be helping my realise that i should probablly take philosophy more serious than this forum, and pursue actually reading books and taking classes on the subject!
very interesting indeed,did anyone notice the correlation of this and my thinking of utopia?
i can draw a loose conclusion based on this, utopia would require everyone to be non-neurotic and non-productiive types (all adaptive types), which are more suited to falling in line with primitive ideas such as government and religion, which are detrimental to freedom.
Id like to discuss this more thorougly if someone has more knowledge than me wants to do some enlightening?
one little side note, i grew up in poverty, so i did not have stable sources of food or shelter most of the time. To those of you that wonder why im so anti-government this could explain why i feel no need for them, as i didnt have the first needs met, thus explaining my indifference for needs in line 2. all theory of course.
ty coberst for another interesting post.
Hrmm and it even helps explain my lack of self esteem when i was younger, having neither#1 #2 or #3, it seems im working on #4 only now.
this is rather exciting to me! what books does otto rank have that i should read?? im like his ideas.
OGIONIK wrote:Hrmm and it even helps explain my lack of self esteem when i was younger, having neither#1 #2 or #3, it seems im working on #4 only now.
this is rather exciting to me! what books does otto rank have that i should read?? im like his ideas.
I do not suggest that you go directly into reading Rank. I suggest as a begining something like "The Death and Rebirth of Psychology"--Ira Progoff. I also suggest that everyone who wants to do some self-learning to go to a local college library and get a "Friends of the Library" card. For a small yearly fee that will give you the ability to borrow any of the books in that library.
OGIONIK wrote:coberst i enjoy reading your posts, i dont know if you read my utopian society post, but my thoughts are similar to what your wrote ( im just saying i came to the same conclusions! but in a different direction)
Keep em coming, you might be helping my realise that i should probablly take philosophy more serious than this forum, and pursue actually reading books and taking classes on the subject!
very interesting indeed,did anyone notice the correlation of this and my thinking of utopia?
i can draw a loose conclusion based on this, utopia would require everyone to be non-neurotic and non-productiive types (all adaptive types), which are more suited to falling in line with primitive ideas such as government and religion, which are detrimental to freedom.
Id like to discuss this more thorougly if someone has more knowledge than me wants to do some enlightening?
one little side note, i grew up in poverty, so i did not have stable sources of food or shelter most of the time. To those of you that wonder why im so anti-government this could explain why i feel no need for them, as i didnt have the first needs met, thus explaining my indifference for needs in line 2. all theory of course.
ty coberst for another interesting post.
I think that CT (Critical Thinking) is 'philosophy light'. I suggest that you start with learning something about critical thinking before going directly into reading philosophy. A good way to start with CT is do a Google of critical thinking and you can get all kinds of information that will help get you started.
OGIONIK wrote:
i can draw a loose conclusion based on this, utopia would require everyone to be non-neurotic and non-productiive types (all adaptive types), which are more suited to falling in line with primitive ideas such as government and religion, which are detrimental to freedom.
. . .
one little side note, i grew up in poverty, so i did not have stable sources of food or shelter most of the time. To those of you that wonder why im so anti-government this could explain why i feel no need for them, as i didnt have the first needs met, thus explaining my indifference for needs in line 2. all theory of course.
OGIONIK,
I read your thread on Utopia, and aside from the mention of "government" I don't recall seeing anything there which would substantiate your statement that all people in a Utopia would need to be adaptive.
coberst wrote:
For me, a Utopia filled only with adaptive people would be repressive and authoritarian.
coberst wrote:
Quote:The productive type tends to be the creative individual. These individuals tend to become satisfied with them self, they can create an ideal that acts as their North Star. Such individuals create themselves in tune with their internal logic and turn to creating change in the world they encounter.
Otto Rank, a Freud protégé, wrote extensively about creativity. Creativity consisted of joining the material with the spiritual and the individual with the universal
My idea of Utopia would be one filled with productive types. Of course, since I'm an artist/writer I obviously have some bias here. :wink:
Still, it seems to me that a self-actualizing person could, working with other S-A's, create a society which could operate quite well with a minimum of laws and/or governmental interference.
I don't think religion needs to be outlawed in a Utopia. The problem is not religion but the people who use religion as a justification for hatred, repression, and a host of other evils.
eclectic
I agree to the extent that a society with the greater number of S-A's would be the better society.
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