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The Haunted Past

 
 
Equus
 
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Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 02:49 pm
Sorry for the digression...
So, was she cut in half after death or was that what killed her? Ms. Dahlia, that is.
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mac11
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 02:52 pm
According to bobsmyth's gruesome yet informative link:

http://www.bethshort.com/dahhome.htm

she was probably unconscious when she was cut in half.
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bobsmyth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 05:35 pm
There was a book written by the surgeon's son who believed his father had done it.

Shock and Awe for S. Hodel's Black Dahlia Avenger!
I saw author Steve Hodel interviewed on the View and was intrigued by what he'd said of the Black Dahlia Avenger. I was unprepared for this shocking, eloquent book. Steve Hodel, a retired LAPD detective, finds an album of "family and loved ones" of his father's after his father, George Hodel's, death. Amoungst photos of himself and family are photos of women Steve does not know. Two of these photos are of Elizabeth Short i.e. The Black Dahlia. S. Hodel's detective instincts kick in and he begins an investigation of his father. (George Hodel was a physician with a genius IQ rivalling Einstein's) What follows is an engrossing mystery investigation that will leave you shocked and aghast at the details and the twists that this true and thoroughly substantiated story takes. I am awed by S. Hodel's courage, intelligence and writing abilities. This has to become a film! The reader will not be able to put down the Black Dahlia Avenger; and try as they might they will never forget George Hodel. To paraphrase Shakespeare,"The evil that men do is buried with them; let this NOT be so for Dr. George Hodel".
*note to author and other readers: Man Ray (artist and friend of George Hodel) is referenced in much of the documentation. In exhibit 40, The surrealists 1929, I noted that Magritte was of course included and I remembered his painting entitled The Lovers which entails a couple with sheets over their heads. This spooky image is repeated in many of his works. I believe that Magritte's mother was found murdered with her nightgown over her head in such a fashion. Is there any connection?! (Of course Magritte and many other surrealists like Dali also painted dissected figures and perhaps this is simply part of surrealism- but the image of The Lovers and the Man Ray connection made me pause).
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Lightwizard
 
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Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 05:50 pm
That is an eerie connection, bobsmyth and makes for more than a pause to think. Could the murderer have been imitating a work of art?

Another mystery is "The Boston Strangler," where Tony Curtis gave a chilling performance of a murdered who might not have even been the culprit. It did achieve a realism that was uncomfortably effective, especially the brilliant use of split screen.

The recent Jack the Ripper drama, "From Hell" was authentic looking but it's comic book source kind of made it a bit too incredible. Johnny Depp as the drug addict detective was a very realistic performance despite the faults of the movie. The computer generated views of London of the period were wonderful.
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bobsmyth
 
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Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 05:56 pm
I remember Tony Curtis playing Albert deSalvo in that film. Also read a very convincing book detailing the progress of the murders. I was dating at that time and women were definitely frightened.
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Lightwizard
 
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Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 06:08 pm
It was a freightening film -- I find it difficult to rewatch it today. Maybe even more so than the fictional "Silence of the Lambs."

"In Cold Blood" was historically accurate and realistic as was "The Onion Field." Both are chilling accounts of actual crimes.

Of recent films for historical realism, I liked what Ridley Scott did with paintings and CGI for his Rome in "Gladiator," even including the recently discovered fact that there were awnings that were hoisted out over the Colliseum to block some of the hot Italian sun.
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 08:36 pm
I had mixed feelings about Gladiator. I think what bothered me most was the costuming. Those outfits don't look anything like what I've seen on marble statues or in frescos and murals of ancient Rome. And the North African sequences were simply wrong, anachronistic. The costumes of those natives were based on the style of dress that came in with the Islamic wave, some 600 or 700 years later.
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Letty
 
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Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2003 07:21 am
Bob, that was the book to which I was referring. I just could not remember the author's name.

Mr. Wizard, Tony Curtis was good in the strangler movie, but I do believe deSalvo was proven innocent much later by a DNA test. Was the Onion Fields the movie whose crux had to do with the Little Lindberg Law?

Much of this discussion here was included in my thread on "History Mysteries", but this is proving to be a better dissection. (yikes, no pun intended) Shocked
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bobsmyth
 
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Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2003 09:21 am
Printable Version

The Boston Strangler

Feb. 15, 2001



Some question whether Albert DeSalvo was really the Boston Strangler. (CBS)



(CBS) Over an 18-month period from 1962 to 1964, the city of Boston was terrorized by a serial killer, the infamous "Boston Strangler." But in 1964, Albert DeSalvo confessed to the brutal killings of 13 women, and authorities and the city at large breathed a collective sigh of relief, believing the killer was finally behind bars.

When he confessed, DeSalvo was a patient in a mental hospital, and his confession could not be used against him. With no evidence linking him to any of the 13 murders, DeSalvo was convicted of unrelated crimes and was sentenced to life in prison.


Web Exclusive:
Real-Life CSI
How has crime scene investigation changed since the days of the Boston Strangler? Find out: Read Technology Inside The Chalk Lines.



Now, 36 years later, 48 Hours reports that some investigators, as well as the family of one victim, are not sure that DeSalvo was the killer. They believe DeSalvo lied in his confession, and they want to force the state to open the case.

Diane Dodd, the sister of victim Mary Sullivan, says her instincts told her someone got away with murder. Now she and Albert DeSalvo's brother Richard are pushing the state to reopen the long dormant case.

They have many allies. Susan Kelly, author of The Boston Stranglers, believes DeSalvo fabricated the entire story. She concedes that his confession was accurate on many details but adds, "the newspapers were an excellent source of information - and it's very interesting to me that the details that Albert got wrong in his confession were identical to the details that the newspapers got wrong."

Kelly thinks several different perpetrators committed the murders.

Robert Ressler, a criminologist and former profiler for the FBI, also believes that it is unlikely that one person is responsible for all the Strangler murders. "You're putting together so many different patterns here that its inconceivable behaviorally that all these could fit one individual," says Ressler.

Despite the theories, without new evidence there is little chance the investigation will lead to answers. To gather that evidence, Dodd agreed to have her sister's body exhumed and re-examined. "This is the last resort. maybe there is something," says Dodd.

Forensics expert James Starrs led the team of independent scientists tha performed the second autopsy on Sullivan.


Sound Off!
Do you think Albert DeSalvo is the Boston Strangler? Add your post to the 48 Hours bulletin boards.



Although the body had deteriorated, they were able to extract several pieces of evidence that may lead to a positive identification of the killer. "The most promising evidence is a head hair from the pubic region," says Starrs. "We do not expect to find head hairs in the pubic region."

Starrs' autopsy also turned up something that may refute DeSalvo's statement that he strangled Mary Sullivan with his bare hands. Starrs found that the hyoid bone in Sullivan's neck was not broken. According to Starrs, that bone would likely have broken if Sullivan had been strangled by hand.

Attorneys Dan Sharp and Elaine Whitfield are helping the families sue the government on the grounds that biological evidence taken is personal property. The State of Massachusetts recently announced that it did find new evidence and will test it. So far the state has refused to share this new evidence, but the families want to be present when the testing is done.

Dodd hopes the newfound evidence can lead to an answer to 36 years of wondering. But she also knows she faces an uphill battle. If it never goes anywhere I'm going to be able to say at least I tried."
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Letty
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2003 09:54 am
Amazing, Bob, simply amazing. Wouldn't it be equally intriguing if all those murders were copy cats? Shocked
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Lightwizard
 
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Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2003 10:03 am
I'd say he wasn't the real killer -- what does everyone else think?

I agree there was some artistic license applied to the costuming in "Gladiator" as well as all of the other Roman or Biblical pictures.
They don't have a lot to go on for soldiers as not many were depicted in statuary and frescos. It didn't bother me -- what I did like was the general feeling of authenticity and the production design. Of course, he started out as a production designer and the artistic look of all of his films are as much his as the designer actually credited on the films. "Blade Runner" is a masterpiece of production design giving authenticity to a future city. "Gladiator" also had one of the better scripts for a Roman epic, on a par with "Spartacus." Russell Crowe's central performance was not the usual historic hero pablum but had depth and dimension. Not a perfect film but in comparison to many of the others, as good as "Ben Hur." Consider all the bad Biblical and Roman history films and there's a bevy of mediocre efforts. Remember "The Silver Chalice?" Also unsual production design (it actually had a contemporary look) but a really bad script and possibly Paul Newman's least appealing performance makes that film a joke. Ridley's feel for authenticity was culminated with "Black Hawk Down," now one of the war movies which can be added to the best ten of all time.
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Equus
 
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Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2003 10:44 am
Even Shakespeare is guilty of anachronisms.
I remember there is a reference in "Julius Caesar" to the clock striking the hour; when such clocks didn't exist in 43 BCE.
There are undoubtedly others.
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mac11
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2003 10:47 am
Romeo has a line about a gun. It's in a scene with Friar Laurence...don't recall it at the moment.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2003 12:04 pm
Equus, that's really funny -- of course the sundial striking the hour would be even funnier. Maybe Shakespeare was using a metaphor with Romeo's line about, perhaps, his gun? We'll never know if he was shooting blanks.
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bobsmyth
 
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Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2003 12:29 pm
Hi Letty:

It's unlikely as the modus operandi would not have been the same. For instance logic tells us different people with different patterns of approach because of the sensational nature of the killings would not have been capable of gaining the confidence of so many women. The stories of the killings state this person gained access with no force being used to enter the dwellings.
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Letty
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2003 01:38 pm
Oh, I know exactly what you mean, Bob, but someone, I think, Diane Dodd, attributed the killings to several people. I was just wondering if one fed off the other. DeSalvo's confession was gleaned from the news reports, so maybe others could do the same. It seems to me that there was a theory about Jack the Ripper staging a serial killer situation to cover one very important murder.

Equus, I don't remember "clock" being used in Caesar. Shocked and as LW pointed out, the sundial may have been where gnomon has ever gone before. Laughing
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2003 03:49 pm
Shakespeare had a few anachronisms in Julius Caesar. In one scene he has Brutus reading a book because he can't sleep. I remember the scene in the movie in which James Mason played Brutus and Marlon Brando was Marc Anthony. Brutus is wearing something that looks like a terrycloth bathrobe. He reaches in his pocket and pulls out a paperback!
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2003 08:53 am
Was it a parchment paperback?
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Letty
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2003 09:03 am
heh! heh! Nah, Mr. Wizard, it was a paperback writer. Hey, this fits. It's got Lear in it:

Paperback writer
Dear Sir or Madam, will you read my book?
It took me years to write, will you take a look?
Based on a novel by a man named Lear
And I need a job, so I want to be a paperback writer,
Paperback writer.

It's the dirty story of a dirty man
And his clinging wife doesn't understand.
His son is working for the Daily Mail,
It's a steady job but he wants to be a paperback writer,
Paperback writer.

Paperback writer

It's a thousand pages, give or take a few,
I'll be writing more in a week or two.
I can make it longer if you like the style,
I can change it round and I want to be a paperback writer,
Paperback writer.

If you really like it you can have the rights,
It could make a million for you overnight.
If you must return it, you can send it here
But I need a break and I want to be a paperback writer,
Paperback writer.

Paperback writer

Paperback writer - paperback writer
Paperback writer - paperback writer


The remaining Beatles had a haunted past. Crying or Very sad
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2003 11:49 am
I wonder if the book Mason took out to read was "How to Murder a Caesar" or "How to Make a Caesar Salad Out of Your Ruler?"
Chop Chop
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