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i have some questions about our laws.

 
 
OGIONIK
 
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:15 am
1-What are the reasons for marijauna being illegal?

2- Are drug laws for profit only? even then we prolly shell out more for prisoners than from tickets/collections?

3-i get this feeling that most our laws arent designed to be , whats the word, not-relevant to the job of government in protecting society and individuals rights and freedoms, And more along the lines of legal slavery and increasing profit through incarceration and intimidation. If my assumption is true what has been done to stop profiting through ignorant/malicious laws?

4- am i naive in assuming we shouldnt oppress society? are ignorant laws a a way for government to keep profits up and is therefore a neccessary evil?


it seems to me that our government has made any and every easy way to make money illegal. why? if our government is all about profiting off of suffering, why should we have to put up with it?
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jespah
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 05:07 pm
Re: i have some questions about our laws.
I'll reply in blue.

OGIONIK wrote:
1-What are the reasons for marijauna being illegal?
Probably lots of reasons. What you're looking for is Legislative Intent, and it varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. I cannot speak for any legislature or committee; it's best to look up such things and not speculate.

2- Are drug laws for profit only? even then we prolly shell out more for prisoners than from tickets/collections?
Probably not for profit. You're right that it ends up being a poor financial equation. This also gets into the philosophy of punishment/prison. After all, what is prison for? To punish? Reform? Rehabilitate? Retrain? Isolate from society? Make our collective indignation manifest? Lots of choices, lots of theories. Prison does, though, tend to beat the hell out of firing squads, amputations and vigilantes. Just my opinion.

3-i get this feeling that most our laws arent designed to be , whats the word, not-relevant to the job of government in protecting society and individuals rights and freedoms, And more along the lines of legal slavery and increasing profit through incarceration and intimidation. If my assumption is true what has been done to stop profiting through ignorant/malicious laws?
That's an awfully broad brush. Are the laws regulating the cleanliness of slaughterhouses irrelevant to the protection of society? After all, there are a lot more civil laws and regulations than there are criminal laws. But I'll play to your question: What about laws against murder or child abuse? Surely the laws against rape are for the protection of the public, are they not?

Your assumption, I put to you, is one that seems to have been plucked from thin air. Study law for a while, and its history, and you'll see that it's an effort, generally, to get a handle on complex and unpredictable societies. Not everyone is good, kind and merciful. Not everyone respects property rights, decides against swindling their neighbor if they're given the opportunity or refrains from spreading damaging lies. And that's just on the civil side. Also, not everyone values human life the same way, or personal autonomy.

Are there bad laws? Absolutely. Are there bad legislators? Of course. But there's no sense in throwing the legislative baby out with the corrupt bathwater. I'd be pretty upset, personally, if the laws about overtime were struck down.


4- am i naive in assuming we shouldnt oppress society? are ignorant laws a a way for government to keep profits up and is therefore a neccessary evil?
Uh, no. I'm still trying to understand what you mean by ignorant laws. Don't blame the laws. The legislature is filled with people who were elected by people like you and me. Hell, the legislature is composed of people kinda like you and me. And those folks want to be reelected badly enough that it's generally not going to be anything truly egregious. And, if they do, there are checks and balances in our system. Such as impeachment. And not reelecting the bums. Do bad things happen? Yes. Do they happen all the time, every single day? Probably not.

It's also a puzzlement to me as to what you consider to be oppression of society. Is it the inability to smoke a J in public? That's an awfully narrow view of rights and oppressions, I'd say. Or is it the inability to go kill anyone we please? Sure, we're oppressed and kept from grabbing a knife and stabbing anything that moves, or at least there are well-known consequences which prevent the vast, vast majority of us from doing such things or even entertaining such thoughts. I don't think that's oppression. That's a balancing of rights. My right to swing my fist ends at the tip of your nose, does it not?


it seems to me that our government has made any and every easy way to make money illegal. why? if our government is all about profiting off of suffering, why should we have to put up with it?

Uh, it hasn't and it's not. I have seen you advocate anarchy before and, if you wish such a society, hey, go for it, but don't be surprised if it doesn't play out as the utopian happy fun paradise you might think (then again, if the main freedom being exercised in this anarchical paradise is smoking a J in public, folks might just be too stoned to care.

Give me a government of laws any day. Laws, by themselves, do not equal oppression and are not the enemy.
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OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 May, 2007 02:19 am
its not just marijauna laws, i mean every drug law, prostitution laws, the law bush put into effect,(i forgot the name of it), guns laws ( why would a criminal, follow the law, if they are a criminal, and the point is to stop criminals from using them, and criminals dont follow laws?)

I was watching history channel, a drug special, what great timing. It said drug laws were implemented out of racism. I so wish that the motivation for drug laws was profit, not racism. I mean at least greed is logical.
I hope it wasn't true, seriously.

But i might as well stop thinking about it, i just realised this country was founded by people of which the majority were religious, thats gonna be a major setback to the good of society right there. religions blinding ignorance once again rearing its ugly head.

I cant say i want anarchy, i just dont want a government in which the individual doesnt have true freedom, and in america right now we don't.
I can see america evolving into a monarchy, or a dictatorship, but hopefully bush's horrible job in office will lead to legislative improvements that will secure america from another wreckless idiot ruining our economy and global image. Oh god moving on to the subject of bush, lol im done its over, i cant think about it anymore!
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 May, 2007 07:08 am
Most laws are passed because someone thinks it would be better for society if we regulated such and such. They then convince enough legislators of that. Some of those laws are pretty easy to see. It is better if we don't allow people to go around killing other people or taking their property from them. Others become harder to see because they are in a grayer area. Of course laws don't have to make sense or even be better for society. You only need to convince 51% of those in power of such. Often laws are passed in an emotional response to a highly publicized incident.

Once laws are passed it becomes harder to repeal them because they can be politically advantageous to your opponent. If you are for repealing the drug laws then you will be painted as supporting rampant drug use amongst our children. There are probably many examples of respected people calling for repeal of drug laws but not getting any traction because of the emotional appeal by their opponents.

One of the examples often used for drug laws tied to racism is the penalties for crack cocaine vs powder cocaine. Crack cocaine is used more by the poor and minority communites. Powder cocaine is more prevelant in the wealthier suburban communites. Equal amount of drugs are punished quite differently. You can have 10 times the amount of powder cocaine and face a lighter sentence than you can for small amounts of crack cocaine.
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OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 May, 2007 07:19 am
all i have to say to answer any of my questions regarding laws can be simplified in this way: Is someone making money?

i always forget this simple philosophy and in doing so i try to create reason where there isnt any. And there i go, a whole post wasted on something i already knew Sad
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 May, 2007 07:21 am
Most laws have little to do with making money. It costs more to enforce the laws then any fines taken in.

We would make a LOT more money by legalizing drugs and taxing them.
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itismesaj
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 May, 2007 11:11 pm
I agree, the government would make a fortune off of legalizing drugs and taxing them, but what's so good about money? As the old saying goes, money is replaceable, but time is not. If you're going to spend all of your time getting stoned on your couch, you're not doing any good for yourself or the community.

And there's a reason that drugs are illegal. They kill people, something the government has agreed on as a "bad thing." Marijuana, too. And since the government's job is to protect the people, and not make money, outlawing drugs and other things is exactly what it should do.
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