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theories and conjecture on crime and its causation

 
 
OGIONIK
 
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 03:00 am
If we didnt have a government to protect us, would we even have crimes to be protected from?

What are the causes of crime?

would people commit crimes if they had an "authority" to submit to? What if we could roam freely without interference from an entity with "leverage against ones own life and freedom"?

My opinion, if we didnt have gov't we would be better off, less technologically advanced maybe, but we would lead happier lives. What government means to me is a form of suppression of self for benifit of the wealthy or politcally connected.

but then again without government we might just be intelligent savages without morality, but maybe we are intelligent enough nowdays to wean ourselves out of gov't control, but i could liken it to moving out of your parents house for the first time, we might fail but maybe its neccessary to evolve socially.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 995 • Replies: 14
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Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2007 09:34 pm
Strong powerful men may be happier. Others maybe not so much.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2007 09:43 pm
Inasmuch as conscience and law are somewhat related, This reminds me of a Quote from my friend Bill:

Shakespeare wrote:
Conscience is but a word that cowards use, devised at first to keep the strong in awe; our strong arms be our conscience, swords our law.
Richard III
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2007 10:54 am
Re: theories and conjecture on crime and its causation
OGIONIK wrote:



Quote:
If we didnt have a government to protect us,
would we even have crimes to be protected from?

We DON 'T have a government to protect us.
If in doubt on that point, ask Kitty Genovese, Nicole Simpson or Reginald Denny.

The life and property of each individual citizen
depends on his ability to defend HIMSELF.
That 's what guns are for

With a lot of LUCK, we might have a government to AVENGE us.
Vengeance was the MOST that government ever offered us.
It never promised to protect us.





Quote:
What are the causes of crime?

Man is a natural predator;
( note eyes in the front of his head, like cats,
and teeth that r better suited to cutting meat than grinding vegitation ).
His MIND ( from which issue knives, guns and nukes ) is his weapon.
David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2007 11:16 am
neologist wrote:
Inasmuch as conscience and law are somewhat related, This reminds me of a Quote from my friend Bill:

Shakespeare wrote:
Conscience is but a word that cowards use, devised at first to keep the strong in awe; our strong arms be our conscience, swords our law.
Richard III

Shakespear was smart.
Jesus appears to agree with him.
He said that a man who does not
have a sword shud buy one. Luke 22:36
I extrapolate that principle
to .44 caliber revolvers, in modern times.
( I believe that a ported 2" Taurus Model 445SS
is ideal when loaded with hollowpointed rounds. )
David
0 Replies
 
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 02:53 am
Re: theories and conjecture on crime and its causation
OmSigDAVID wrote:
OGIONIK wrote:



Quote:
If we didnt have a government to protect us,
would we even have crimes to be protected from?

We DON 'T have a government to protect us.
If in doubt on that point, ask Kitty Genovese, Nicole Simpson or Reginald Denny.

The life and property of each individual citizen
depends on his ability to defend HIMSELF.
That 's what guns are for

With a lot of LUCK, we might have a government to AVENGE us.
Vengeance was the MOST that government ever offered us.
It never promised to protect us.





Quote:
What are the causes of crime?

Man is a natural predator;
( note eyes in the front of his head, like cats,
and teeth that r better suited to cutting meat than grinding vegitation ).
His MIND ( from which issue knives, guns and nukes ) is his weapon.
David


good point, government really only does give us revenge. it can prevent some crimes but nobody commits crimes around cops, so they usually show up after the fact.

IMO crime doesnt exist because we are predators, i think its because of poverty. well, poverty sort of forces people to become predatorial.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2007 07:38 am
Re: theories and conjecture on crime and its causation
OGIONIK wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
OGIONIK wrote:



Quote:
If we didnt have a government to protect us,
would we even have crimes to be protected from?

We DON 'T have a government to protect us.
If in doubt on that point, ask Kitty Genovese, Nicole Simpson or Reginald Denny.

The life and property of each individual citizen
depends on his ability to defend HIMSELF.
That 's what guns are for

With a lot of LUCK, we might have a government to AVENGE us.
Vengeance was the MOST that government ever offered us.
It never promised to protect us.





Quote:
What are the causes of crime?

Man is a natural predator;
( note eyes in the front of his head, like cats,
and teeth that r better suited to cutting meat than grinding vegitation ).
His MIND ( from which issue knives, guns and nukes ) is his weapon.
David


good point, government really only does give us revenge. it can prevent some crimes but nobody commits crimes around cops, so they usually show up after the fact.




IMO crime doesnt exist because we are predators,
i think its because of poverty.
well, poverty sort of forces people to become predatorial
.

I believe that history disproves this theory.

During the depression of the late 1920s and 1930s,
the charity cases who attended the soup kitchens
were not known for practicing predatory crime.

There was NO crime wave at that time,
other than wealthy criminals like Al Capone fighting among themselves over turf.

For sure, I wud STARVE to death
before I 'd commit a robbery; my honor is more important.
David
0 Replies
 
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2007 08:23 am
if starving before stealing is honor, im definitely not getting a medal anytime soon Wink
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2007 08:30 am
To my mind,
honor inheres in forbearance from violation
of the rights of others; I will so forbear,
starve or not, with or without medals.
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2007 08:47 am
Re: theories and conjecture on crime and its causation
OmSigDAVID wrote:

There was NO crime wave at that time,
other than wealthy criminals like Al Capone fighting among themselves over turf.


I think the role of the mafia was a little more mainstream than this. Didn't they pretty much rule local governments in a few major cities?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2007 10:29 am
Re: theories and conjecture on crime and its causation
littlek wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:

There was NO crime wave at that time,
other than wealthy criminals like Al Capone fighting among themselves over turf.


I think the role of the mafia was a little more mainstream than this.
Didn't they pretty much rule local governments in a few major cities?
Neither Capone nor the other Chicago gangs
were in the Mafia.
I believe that came a little later.
However, I am sure that he did freely engage in municipal bribery.
0 Replies
 
VSPrasad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jul, 2007 07:49 pm
Ancient Europeans wrote about Ages of Man:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_Man

There are also many other references to various
types of world ages or Ages of Man in Hopi
(worlds), Mayan (suns) and other cultures of
antiquity. Giorgio de Santillana, the former
professsor of the history of science, mentions
approximately thirty ancient cultures that
believed in the concept of a series of ages and
the rise and fall of history, with alternating
Dark and Golden Ages.

Detailed information on the ages is found in the Hindu Yuga theory:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saty_Yuga

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuga

The Yuga theory states that evil goes through large cycles
of time. The present age is known as Kali Yuga (age of darkness).

Hindu astrogers wrote that the crime rate in the world will decrease
to 40% of its present world in about two decades from now.

"From 2010, winds of spiritualism will blow across the
entire world, awakening more and more people in its wake. Where limits
of (modern) science end, spiritualism begins. .... Along with scientific
progress, intellectuals will start recognizing the importance of
spiritualism. .... From 2050, a new era will begin...."

Swami Dattavadhut, Prophecies 1998 to 2100, Vanita Books, Mumbai, 1997, pp. 33-42.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jul, 2007 08:20 pm
Quote:
If we didnt have a government to protect us, would we even have crimes to be protected from?
Quote:
What are the causes of crime?


Rather varied I should think. From Anti Social Personality Disorder (otherwise known as sociopaths or psychopaths) and Schizophrenia, to jealousy, to envy, to lack of intelligence, to poor communication skills, to poverty, to drugs and alcohol, to greed, to prejudice, to hate, to ignorance and on and on and on.

Quote:
would people commit crimes if they had an "authority" to submit to? What if we could roam freely without interference from an entity with "leverage against ones own life and freedom"?


See both above.

Quote:
My opinion, if we didnt have gov't we would be better off, less technologically advanced maybe, but we would lead happier lives.


Yes, of course. If someone does something wrong against you, just shoot them. If your brother, or mother or father does something wrong against someone else and gets shot, then you can shoot the shooter, whose surviving brother or father can then shoot you etc etc

Quote:
What government means to me is a form of suppression of self for benifit of the wealthy or politcally connected.

This view certainly has its merit, as there has certainly been a redistribution in western wealth over the last 30 years or so. And money and political importance certainly buys one more 'justice'.

Quote:
but then again without government we might just be intelligent savages without morality, but maybe we are intelligent enough nowdays to wean ourselves out of gov't control, but i could liken it to moving out of your parents house for the first time, we might fail but maybe its neccessary to evolve socially.


You are assuming that everyone is intelligent.
0 Replies
 
MHJuno
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jul, 2007 12:20 am
1. What government means to me is a form of suppression of self for benifit of the wealthy or politcally connected.

1a. This view certainly has its merit, as there has certainly been a redistribution in western wealth over the last 30 years or so. And money and political importance certainly buys one more 'justice'.

2. But then again without government we might just be intelligent savages without morality, but maybe we are intelligent enough nowdays to wean ourselves out of gov't control, but i could liken it to moving out of your parents house for the first time, we might fail but maybe its neccessary to evolve socially.


2a. You are assuming that everyone is intelligent.

1. Government in general may be seen as a form of suppression, or a leviathan as it were, to carry and use the sword as its own prescriptions dictate; though it is neither the business of government proper nor is it inclined to muffle the individual self from its own endeavors, whether or not that includes commercial or philosophical interests etc. And notwithstanding a ruling elite in most modern social structures- and by 'elite' I mean those with deep interests and education in government- such groups rarely have the capacity to defuse the individual 'self' from the right of liberty, security, and prosperity (which Locke & Co equated with real property).

1a. Government may be a form of self-suppression since the western world has indeed shifted its distribution of wealth in other directions? Curious ...

On the last note I respectfully say that both intelligence and morality are assumed; 'intelligence' from our biological status and 'morality' from government. But these two call for qualification.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jul, 2007 01:02 pm
Re: theories and conjecture on crime and its causation
OGIONIK wrote:
What government means to me is a form of suppression of self for benifit of the wealthy or politcally connected.


When you say government are you talking about some form of 'idealized' government, or about an 'actual' government in action currently (if so, which government)?
0 Replies
 
 

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