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Does God Reason?

 
 
RexRed
 
Reply Mon 30 Apr, 2007 07:53 am
Is God so infinite and omnipotent that he cannot be fit within the framework of reason and rationality?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 1,674 • Replies: 29
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RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Apr, 2007 08:18 am
God has many names and they are like strings stretched upon a harp and when God plays the harp and strums them all, that is creation. Yet each name fulfills a certain tone, pitch and expressive character of God that the ear can distinguish and understand along ours melodic journey through life.

The very low strings of the harp make a sound that has no directive abilities but they permeate all creation. When the bass stings pound and pulsate and are even heard above all the other stings from another room. Yet the high stings can be directed and and focused in the heart and are the most rich in information. That the heart sings a joyful melody in the love spectrum of God. The higher strings reason among themselves and play perfect melodies from the voices of angels...
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Apr, 2007 01:26 pm
Response to first post: God is the archetype if reason. That we might not always understand is a subject of our limitations, not his.

Response to second post: Huh?
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RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Apr, 2007 02:34 pm
neologist wrote:
Response to first post: God is the archetype if reason. That we might not always understand is a subject of our limitations, not his.

Response to second post: Huh?


The second post requires only a, Huh?... Smile

The first post still requires some discussion.

Can God be contained within the limited faculties we as humans refer to as reason? Or is God above reason, if so then would God not be unreasonable?
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RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Apr, 2007 02:35 pm
Job 13:3
Surely I would speak to the Almighty, and I desire to reason with God.
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Apr, 2007 02:40 pm
Re: Does God Reason?
RexRed wrote:
Is God so infinite and omnipotent that he cannot be fit within the framework of reason and rationality?


Yes, she is!
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RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Apr, 2007 11:57 pm
Re: Does God Reason?
Miller wrote:
RexRed wrote:
Is God so infinite and omnipotent that he cannot be fit within the framework of reason and rationality?


Yes, she is!


Smile Both the male and female gender share God equally, for God is love and thus the greatest lover...
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2007 03:43 am
Re: Does God Reason?
RexRed wrote:
Miller wrote:
RexRed wrote:
Is God so infinite and omnipotent that he cannot be fit within the framework of reason and rationality?


Yes, she is!


Smile Both the male and female gender share God equally, for God is love and thus the greatest lover...


The Shekinah rules in this world and the next.

:wink:
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Mills75
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2007 09:40 pm
If we assume, for the sake of intellectual masturbation, that an omnipotent infinite being exists, then it's safe (and logical) to also assume that our finite nature renders us incapable of really grasping the nature and thought processes of such a being. It's not that such a being wouldn't fit into the framework of reason and rationality; it's that such a being would not fit into our limited paradigm of reason and rationality.
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 May, 2007 07:22 am
neologist wrote:
Response to first post: God is the archetype if reason. That we might not always understand is a subject of our limitations, not his.


In other words if God kills people because of their religious beliefs, has such a bad temper he wants to rip fetuses out of women's bellies and enjoys killing children, it's our fault in not seeing this as his love for his creation.

Ya, that sounds reasonable. Put all the blame on humans and plea lack of understanding to God's ways.

So is there a reason to kill these people? Of course. They pissed off God. Killing is such a simple way to solve problems. Ask Stalin and Hitler.

If it takes too much brainpower to figure out who to kill and who not to kill, do as the Christians and their God does.

Quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade

They used reason and rational judgment here in the same manner as their God. And it worked. Genghis Khan used the same tactics.

When you follow God's example, use the same method of reasoning as God, how can you be wrong?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 May, 2007 07:24 am
Mills75 wrote:
If we assume, for the sake of intellectual masturbation, that an omnipotent infinite being exists, then it's safe (and logical) to also assume that our finite nature renders us incapable of really grasping the nature and thought processes of such a being. It's not that such a being wouldn't fit into the framework of reason and rationality; it's that such a being would not fit into our limited paradigm of reason and rationality.


If we are connected to God's reason through the spirit then how limited are we and in what areas? Is God limited by our limitations? Can God break his own laws?
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 May, 2007 07:31 am
RexRed wrote:
Can God break his own laws?


I don't know what laws God sets for himself but he breaks the laws he sets for us.
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RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 May, 2007 07:38 am
xingu wrote:
RexRed wrote:
Can God break his own laws?


I don't know what laws God sets for himself but he breaks the laws he sets for us.


What law in particular has God "broken"? Smile
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 May, 2007 07:47 am
RexRed wrote:
xingu wrote:
RexRed wrote:
Can God break his own laws?


I don't know what laws God sets for himself but he breaks the laws he sets for us.


What law in particular has God "broken"? Smile


How about murder.

How about stealing.
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RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 May, 2007 08:22 am
xingu wrote:
RexRed wrote:
xingu wrote:
RexRed wrote:
Can God break his own laws?


I don't know what laws God sets for himself but he breaks the laws he sets for us.


What law in particular has God "broken"? Smile


How about murder.

How about stealing.


Of murder and killing there is a subtle distinction drawn between them to everyone but sociopaths and liberal democrats... Smile

What did God steal? Have you ever SEEN God murder anyone?

God does not even steal souls from the devil. God wins them back through our own freewill and faculty of reason.

How about innocence until PROVEN guilty on these alleged charges?
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 May, 2007 08:33 am
RexRed wrote:
xingu wrote:
RexRed wrote:
xingu wrote:
RexRed wrote:
Can God break his own laws?


I don't know what laws God sets for himself but he breaks the laws he sets for us.


What law in particular has God "broken"? Smile


How about murder.

How about stealing.


Of murder and killing there is a subtle distinction drawn between them to everyone but sociopaths and liberal democrats...

What did God steal? Have you ever SEEN God murder anyone? Smile


Have I seen it? No.

Have I read it? Yes, in the Bible.

Read it someday.

How can God steal? He tells his favorites to kill tribes and steal their animals. He orders and approves of stealing, murder and rape.

He kills people who practice a religion that does not worship him. He kills people based on their religious beliefs. By our values that is murder. It is evil.

If it is not murder or evil in God's world why is it we have to live by a higher standard of values than God? And even by living under this higher standard we are called evil. And God, in his vanity, says he may forgive us provided we worship him.

If not than go to Hell.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 May, 2007 09:36 am
xingu wrote:
RexRed wrote:
xingu wrote:
RexRed wrote:
xingu wrote:
RexRed wrote:
Can God break his own laws?


I don't know what laws God sets for himself but he breaks the laws he sets for us.


What law in particular has God "broken"? Smile


How about murder.

How about stealing.


Of murder and killing there is a subtle distinction drawn between them to everyone but sociopaths and liberal democrats...

What did God steal? Have you ever SEEN God murder anyone? Smile


Have I seen it? No.

Have I read it? Yes, in the Bible.

Read it someday.

How can God steal? He tells his favorites to kill tribes and steal their animals. He orders and approves of stealing, murder and rape.

He kills people who practice a religion that does not worship him. He kills people based on their religious beliefs. By our values that is murder. It is evil.

If it is not murder or evil in God's world why is it we have to live by a higher standard of values than God? And even by living under this higher standard we are called evil. And God, in his vanity, says he may forgive us provided we worship him.

If not than go to Hell.


The old testament people with their limited spiritual abilities discerned the true will and nature of God "in their own image" rather than spirit which is God's true image. Sounds reminiscent of the same confusion of modern Biblical dogma today. Your own confusion here only demonstrates this confusion over the image of God versus that of man is still perpetuated.

The "new testament" where the spirit is made available to "all" has a different view of God. Why? Because the spirit was fulfilled within them so the image of God (spirit) is now perceived over the image of man/woman (body and soul). Even Peter demonstrated his own weakness and denials of truth prior to the dispensation of the holy spirit. It is sad to think Peter was the best the world had to offer spiritually, aside from Jesus Christ himself.

What laws are much different today from a human perspective alone? People are still killing each other with diseases spread by promiscuous sex and homosexuals are still victims of hate crimes, despite God's call to love... We still have capital punishment and migrant slaves working for peanuts to put food on the tables of others more fortunate. Why incriminate God with our own weakness when God's only desire is to deliver us as he has delivered countless others. The spirit opens our eyes to the true God and the law of liberty which reveals a heart of compassion and love, and love ultimately conquerers all.

This love is the image of God. Jesus revealed this nature of God to a world that had long been depleted of it's spiritual deposit.

This old testament picture should serve as an example of what a life void of God's image can produce, contrarily what old testament people could do with so little spirit in the face of such adversity.

Homosexuals received the same fate as adulterers so it would only stand to reason that the law was made against promiscuity and not necessarily sexuality.

Pork was considered unclean and an abomination to God just as homosexuality under the guise of promiscuity. Promiscuity is still an abomination to God today and God does not have to lift a finger for the diseases will get you long before God's wrath ever will.

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
0 Replies
 
Mills75
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 May, 2007 07:43 pm
RexRed wrote:
If we are connected to God's reason through the spirit then how limited are we and in what areas? Is God limited by our limitations? Can God break his own laws?
We are limited in all areas because we are finite in all areas. The addition of the factor of connectedness between us finite beings and this infinite omnipotent being fails to change our limitations. That a house is connected to the electricity grid does not give it the same capacity as the power plant.

That such a being might be limited by our finite nature is a non sequitur--our finite nature has no bearing on its nature.

Finally, such a being would truly be bound by no laws--that's pretty much the definition of omnipotent.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 06:52 am
Mills75 wrote:
RexRed wrote:
If we are connected to God's reason through the spirit then how limited are we and in what areas? Is God limited by our limitations? Can God break his own laws?
We are limited in all areas because we are finite in all areas. The addition of the factor of connectedness between us finite beings and this infinite omnipotent being fails to change our limitations. That a house is connected to the electricity grid does not give it the same capacity as the power plant.

That such a being might be limited by our finite nature is a non sequitur--our finite nature has no bearing on its nature.

Finally, such a being would truly be bound by no laws--that's pretty much the definition of omnipotent.


A house unplugged from the power grid goes "dark"...

Maybe God chooses to abide by his own laws. Smile

If God broke even one single law of nature that has been in effect since the big bang then all of creation would crumble into a pile of lifeless dust.
0 Replies
 
Mills75
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 09:14 pm
RexRed wrote:
A house unplugged from the power grid goes "dark"...
Unless it has its own generator... (I have no idea where you're headed with that comment.)

Quote:
Maybe God chooses to abide by his own laws. Smile
Indeed, an infinite omnipotent being can choose to abide by whatever it wishes, but 'choosing' and being 'bound' are two entirely different things.

Quote:
If God broke even one single law of nature that has been in effect since the big bang then all of creation would crumble into a pile of lifeless dust.
Not if we're still assuming the precondition of omnipotence in our little hypothetical. Just as a computer programmer could change or bypass a rule within a bit of software by rewriting some of its code, an omnipotent being could choose to break a law of nature without destroying the universe. Omnipotence means the power to do literally anything.
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