Homosexuality v. Christianity -- A FEW QUESTIONS:

I think Jesus would go along with that Angie, and would be making throw-up gestures while reading the rest of this stuff. Doubt he would much care for contemporary "Christians."

angie's quote: "Compassion, Charity, Love, Honesty, etc. are ideals that seem to run through many organized "religions", including christianity." Why must all these positive characteristics necessarily attach to religions or christianity? Why not the whole human race? We still end up with the same result: some good folks and some bad folks. c.i.

"Why must all these positive characteristics necessarily attach to religions or christianity?"

They don't, CI, do they? Not in my experience. They get coopted by religions -- who compete for attention like laundry powders: "whiter than white," "cleaner than clean," not to mention "better than you" !!

Egypt did not use slaves to build monuments.

Bunny, technically, the messiah is the Jewish saviour....and the peeps still be waiting...

Lest we Jews forget, when we crossed the Red Sea, and the Egyptians were drowned, the Israelites sang songs of praise....then god chastised them saying: "My children drown, and you sing praises?" <loose translation, btw, but close enough> Even then, OUR god recognized that everyone is human, and religion just a guidebook, not a way of life....

It wasn't the Red Sea, Cecil, it was the Reed Sea.

c.i. What I should have said was : ""Compassion, Charity, Love, Honesty, etc. are ideals that seem to run through the TENETS ofmany organized "religions", including christianity."

Meaning, these values are values they recognize as worthy and profess to espouse. I was not suggesting that these values ought to exist solely within a religious framework. In fact, you're absolutely correct: these values exist and ought to be espoused by all of humankind.

People choose to be part of various organized religions for many reasons, and they certainly have the right to do so. If those religions truly professed and lived by values of inclusiveness and love, etc., I dare say human history would read much better for everyone.

And that gun-totin' goyim Heston to boot...

There is zero historical record of the Hebrew slaves or for that matter, Moses himself. For those who say it was because the Pharoah ordered all the records wiped out, the same thing was done to Akhenaton and Nefertiti but not only have they found most of the record of their reign, they've likely found Nefertiti's mummy.

The parting of the Reed Sea was likely an actual event of the eruption of Thera, causing the water to ebb until the Sea was dry and then followed by a tidal wave. Conjuring up these stories in the Old Testament borrowed a lot from actual historical events. In fact, there are recorded historical involving plagues and climate events that correspond somewhat with the timeline of the story of Moses. Trouble is, there was no Moses.

Well, there is a Moses Znaimer....

I'm not sure what the laws of decency were in those days but if Moses had exposed his staff in Ramses throne room (bathroom?), he could have been charged with indecent exposure.

Ramses would have 'taken cover' I think.

I don't think Nefertiri would have! She was already smitten and that would seal the deal. "Oh, Moses, Moses, Moses...are you sure you're entirely Jewish?"

(Now that we've managed to bring this thread into the realm of low comedy...but wait, I think there have been several posters who could be observed as using low comedy even if they won't admit it).

Nefertiti would also most likely not consider Moses' exposure indecent....however, in the end, he clearly perferred rough trade...the well-worn shepherd girl...it couldn't have ALL been about religion...

LW, What you say about slaves in Egypt is correct; the digs around the pyramids show that the workers were actually treated very well, and they were Egyptians according to all the archaeological findings. As for Moses, there is a monument built for him on Mt Nebo in Jordan. We visited there on our visit last year. That's no proof Mosese existed, but it sure is a somewhat convincing monument for christians that wants to believe. As for Akhenaten, many sculptures exist today that show his deformed features. The Aswan museum has several of them. BTW, it is claimed that Akhenaten was the father of King Tut. c.i.

King Tut certainly succeeded Akhenaten. The evidence on the mummy thought to be Nefertiti shows she may have been struck in the head and ribs even though there was a desecration of the mummy by tomb raiders. As there's is evidence that King Tut was also murdered by a blow to the head, it seems that the Egyptian priests were still not pleased with the one God concept or anyone associated with it (even though Nefertiti began bringing back the old Gods in an effort of appeasement).

Of course, momuments are also erected in England of Frodo, Gandalf and Aragorn. Still doesn't have anything to do with whether they existed 7,000 years ago. Tolkien, incidentally, was a Bible scholar and worked on translations of the Bible.

cav, There were several Ramses. The most famous is Ramses II who ruled for 63 years and lived to be over 90 years old at a time when the life expectancy in Egypt was 40. He also had 200 wives and concubines, so I was wondering if that's the secret to long life.