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Is there proof God exists?

 
 
kYRANI
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 07:05 am
@fresco,
To evoke God as the ultimate "conceptualizer" is say God has independent existence because the universe(s) come into being out of ideas and God is the one who is gving rise to those ideas . You cannot know God and I believe there is only one God and one source of all religions. However you can look inwardly, in the mind or non-physical realm but to realize the truth "you" as personal self needs first be extinguished. The mystical experience is God experiencing ItSelf!
voiceOftruth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 08:24 am
Absolutely "GOD" is exists. be LOGIC guys!! we are not here right now if "GOD" not exists "GOD" truly exists and he created all things even a single dot in your brain! NO DOUBTS!
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 08:26 am
@voiceOftruth,
Learn to speak English, then come back to talk to us.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 08:28 am
@kYRANI,
I have experienced transcendence of "self" and a feeling of holistic unity.
Such a transcendent state is familiar to many people without any religious connotations, as for example a meditational state or a chemically induced state. Nothing is gained by calling that unity "God" as opposed to "holistic consciousness" except for the associated "insurance policy psychology" that goes with the word "God" due to the social conditioning of theists. Any counter claim that "that" was not "God" is merely a statement that you are unwilling to give up your insurance claim.
voiceOftruth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 08:32 am
@kYRANI,
AMEN!
0 Replies
 
voiceOftruth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 08:38 am
@Setanta,
you must too Setantan bec. even the existence of your GOD you don't know so sad for you Sad
0 Replies
 
voiceOftruth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 08:53 am
@USAFHokie80,
you don't believe in GOD? then who created the world you stand for ? who created the all living things? most of all WHO CREATED YOU?
0 Replies
 
kYRANI
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 08:56 pm
@fresco,
Everything is one, call it holistic unity if you like but that experience is only the begining. You have not gone far enough yet. And as for the insurance policy, that is only for the misguided Christians who think that they can carry on doing anything they want and at the end of the day say "I believe in Jesus" and bingo it's all cleared away. They are in for a rude shock.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 12:18 am
@kYRANI,
Whoops ! You're social conditioning is showing!
I challenge you to state that you don't believe in an "afterlife".
kYRANI
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 05:08 am
@fresco,
Of course I believe in an afterlife but I am not a Christian and I do not subscribe to any particular religion. I believe what I believe through my spiritual practice and experiences and not out of any social conditioning.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 05:10 am
The mere belief in deities is a product of social conditioning. I don't care if you delude yourself, but don't piss down my leg and tell me it's raining.
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 05:11 am
@kYRANI,
Quote:
I believe what I believe through my spiritual practice and experiences and not out of any social conditioning.


Very Happy
0 Replies
 
kYRANI
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 05:26 am
@Setanta,
That might be your opinion and your entitled to it of course but it is not evidence based. Simply because a lot of people follow mindlessly some religion or other does not follow that everyone who believes in god is influenced by what others believe.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 05:30 am
@kYRANI,
No, your claim is not evidence based. Do you allege that had you been born into a society which was completely areligious, you would have come to the conclusion that there is a deity, and that this deity created the cosmos and everything in it? This is like your thread with its feeble attempt to peddle irreducible complexity, in which you disavow christianity specifically and participation in organized religion generally, and yet are attempting to peddle a core argument of christian creationism. Your claims are unconvincing. Don't feed me this "evidence based" bullshit, you steadfastly ignored every request i made to you in that thread to provide evidence for your whacky claims about ESP>
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 05:33 am
@kYRANI,
No. You merely subscribe to a minor psychological insurance company, no such company ever having been shown to pay out on the "afterlife clause". And that "I" that believes maintains its self integrity by virtue of its relationship with a "God" concept. For that "I", its "self-integrity" is even perceived as extending beyond death, even though there is glaring evidence from dementia studies that "self -integrity" can fail well before death!
kYRANI
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 06:06 am
@fresco,
The "I" of personal self is only an ephemearal being. It has no independent reality without the existence of the body because it is a collection of physiological reactions to a corresponding collection of ideas. If you meditate though you will arrive at a place where the "I" vanishes and when that happens you find that there is not complete extinction. What remains however is not a personal self but the impersonal self that is universal. It is this impersonal self that is god and has eternal life. There is nothing to be attained. Spiritual life is about realizing reality, what is and has always been and always will be.
kYRANI
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 06:20 am
@Setanta,
ESP is not hard to prove to yourself. If you get together with other people and address each other mentally with simple ideas you will find that you will be able to perceive what has been presented to you by the other person. The key ingredients are relationship and a perceptive stance not trying to guess anything. In general relevance is also important. What is relevant to us we become aware of and what is irrelevant we are most often not aware of because it is of no interest. I tried to give you an example of experiments done in the mid 1990 which I cannot find on the net. In my opinion biomedical scientists are not interested in doing these experiments for a couple of reasons, one is that they point to a non-physical reality and science in general doesn't like what it can't see and can't measure. The other reason is that ESP points to the real causes behind diseases and that is not profitable because people can get well without medical interventions.
As for my views on evolution, I am not convinced about it at all. I am not a Christian and I do not believe in Christian creationism. However I am more inclined to believe in the universe and everything in it as being created in the first place, and that does not exclude that there can be further adaptations afterwards. In physics there is almost a universal acceptance that matter comes into being from nothing. What they are really seeing is matter comes into being and pops out of being from some non-physical reality, which they want to call nothing. They can't measure it, they can't see it so they call it nothing.
And lastly if I was born into an areligious society I would still believe in god. When I was four years old, a preschooler, my uncle had visited us and we talked together under my father's peach tree in the yard. I told him that God was everywhere in everything and he told my mother and I was beaten savagely for that statement. It has done nothing to change my mind.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 06:25 am
@kYRANI,
That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it but it's not evidence based.
0 Replies
 
igm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 06:34 am
@kYRANI,
kYRANI wrote:

And lastly if I was born into an areligious society I would still believe in god. When I was four years old, a preschooler, my uncle had visited us and we talked together under my father's peach tree in the yard. I told him that God was everywhere in everything and he told my mother and I was beaten savagely for that statement. It has done nothing to change my mind.

This doesn't to me have the 'ring of truth to it' ... it sounds to me like a story a preacher would tell to encourage others to become faithful followers. Perhaps its ESP on my part or just my skeptical nature. My apologies if it is true I of course have no way of knowing.
kYRANI
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 06:46 am
@igm,
You can't know what happen to me as a child and I can't prove it to you. My mother was a Christian fanatic and my father was an atheist and I was not influenced by either of them. Not everyone is necessarily inflenced by everyone else around them. Some people are free thinkers.
 

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