Is there proof God exists?

Is there a way to ban people who cut and paste long screeds on this forum? I'm sure that people who post spam are banned, but shouldn't cutting and pasting be disallowed also? Its nearly as disruptive and doesn't contribute much to the sharing of ideas since nobody reads them.

USAFHokie80 wrote:

So, rather than argue about the possibility of proof existing, why not have those who claim that proof *does* exist, provide said proof ?

Because there is no proof, at least not the type of proof that you are asking for. We see the type of universe that we ask for. If we are existential or atheist in our beliefs, we see a cruel, uncaring universe without a God. If we are disposed toward faith, we receive some kind of confirmation of our faith, but not objective proof. If we seek experience of God, it comes as internal spiritual experience. We all seem to get what we want.

Is there a way to ban people who cut and paste long screeds on this forum? I'm sure that people who post spam are banned, but shouldn't cutting and pasting be disallowed also? Its nearly as disruptive and doesn't contribute much to the sharing of ideas since nobody reads them.

I don't believe in god, and I don't see the universe as harsh or cruel.

The definition of proof requires that it be objective. So you say there is no proof - only your belief.

USAFHokie80 wrote:

I don't believe in god, and I don't see the universe as harsh or cruel.

How do you view suffering and death?

Quote:

The definition of proof requires that it be objective. So you say there is no proof - only your belief.

That is true for objective proof. However, as individuals we commonly factor in our own internal experience in constructing our world-view. For example, I'm sure you didn't require objective proof when you fell in love (assuming you did at one time in your life). So, in addition to belief, there is also our subjective experience. If I have a spiritual experience, I may modify my understanding of the world to accommodate that experience, whether or not there is objective proof.

Suffering and death are the product largely of our own doing. Death, of course is also inevitable with or without human meddling.

There is only objective proof. I can't prove I ever was in love. I don't try.

And I'm not sure that likening your proof of god to proving love is helpful to your argument. Honestly, for me that seems to trivialize your proof even further.

Love is a state of mind.

There is a huge difference between saying love is real and god is real. Love is not a being. Love is an emotion the same as anger or any other. They are constructs of our mind. Love requires a human to experience it for it to really "exist."

Your god is supposed to be a being. A being does not require another being for itself to exist. I don't really see how you can draw any similarity between love and god.

And no, the fact that suffering and death exist does not make the universe cruel. Contrary to that, there is also life and love. Which makes the universe balanced and just.

I guess I just got caught up in the title of the thread saying something about "proof". Silly me.

In terms of Math, imagine trying to prove that a factorial exists between any two integers. That is to say that 2.5!, e!, 3.14159! exist. You can't, because it is without (outside) definition.

God, as it is refered is without boundry/limit and possess infinite property. QED: It is without definition.

Of course in the case above I am refering to the notion of god as the abrahamic faiths describe. Given a different definition, for instance any of the greek gods, one can identify boundries/limits and properties of the theoretical being.

We have the ability to discuss proof of the greek gods individually, and certainly a discussion on this, would prove that ultimately they do not exist.

In terms of Math, imagine trying to prove that a factorial exists between any two integers. That is to say that 2.5!, e!, 3.14159! exist. You can't, because it is without (outside) definition.