THE BRITISH THREAD II

But this IS different, ebeth. The Scots who live in England haven't left their country, as they are still in Britain. I know it's weird, but that is the case. Same passport, same currency, same Queen, same car registration laws, same Taxman, same road laws, etc.

They have NOT moved abroad, or turned their back on their country of birth, or anything like that.
They have only moved to a different region of Britain, To deny them a vote on whether their HOME REGION should break away from Britain is unfair, imo, and done purely because some statistician has somehow assumed that they may be more likely to vote no.

Sean Connery and all the other Scots who have actually moved abroad, fair enough. But those British Scots who still reside in Britain and have always done so? They should have a vote.

Even the Scots soldiers who happen to be based elsewhere in Britain are going to be denied a vote, so I understand.

Salmond is a slippery bugger who will get into office any way he can. This denial of a vote is helping to prove the point.

"All he has said, I believe, is that Rebus would vote "No" and Siobhan Clarke "Yes" and he himself is publicly staying "right in the middle"."

It's remarkable how many people are making a point of staying right in the middle up there.
Last night on the news they were interviewing fishermen and market traders at Scotland's biggest fish market.
Their main customer by far is England, and all of the men spoken to expressed their serious concerns regarding future trade.
Yet not one of them spoke out either for or against independence. When asked, the majority quickly stated no comment and suddenly found work to go and do.
Hardly any 'current' sports stars have said a word either, and any big organisations who dare disagree with Salmond and his boys quickly get slapped down in public and veiled threats get made about that Company's future in Scotland.
Salmond actually had one of his Nats men go too far the other day, making some comment in public about how these firms could find themselves being nationalised in the near future, so Salmond had to publicly rebuke him for what was said.

It seems there are two fear factors at large here. Scots who do most of their busuness in England fear for their future prosperity.
And Scots who actually see the bigger picture are being 'greatly encouraged', shall we say, to keep their Unionist gobs shut.


As Izzy previously stated, even if they vote no on Thursday, it will cost the rest of the UK a pretty penny in increased funding and subsidy etc., and for what?
I think it's past the point of no return now, as even if they stay, The rUK will be totally pissed off at all this extra being sent their way, even though they as a region are richer than many other parts of Britain, this on top of the fact that they receive on average approx £1200 per head more than any other Brit gets at the moment.

I say let them bugger off and we see who recovers first, personally.
If they are that gullible, that's their problem.

They will have created a new nation on the back of a pack of lies/dodgy statistics. A new nation that will from day one be deeply divided right down the middle.

For what? And at what cost for the other parts of Britain in terms of market uncertainty, etc.

If they go, then don't expect the rest of Britain to be all goodness and light towards them anytime soon.
And if thay stay, expect a massive backlash from the ordinary English (who make up 91% of Britain's population) regarding all this proposed budgetary unfairness.

I'm sick of it.

Bump

Bump2

I agree with most of that Lordy, without the rancour. I think the starry-eyed and idealistic YES voters are sleepwalking towards a big pit of doo-doo.

Nationalist-socialist is not a good way to go, even with a strong manufacturing base, which is absent here.

And Lord Barnett was on the radio yesterday: " My funding formula for Scotland was a big mistake"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11100400/My-funding-formula-for-Scotland-is-a-terrible-mistake-Lord-Barnett-admits.html

Lets hope the law of unintended consequences does not come hard into play, by supporting a clear NO choice.

"National-socialist" would aim to expanding the territory. Besides that, I can't see any parallels to national-socialism at all.

The rancour is simply being returned over the net, McT.

Salmond has been belittling the English and lying through his back teeth to make us look bad in all of this. I can take that on the chin, but when the masses start believing him and harassing, barracking, abusing and assaulting any and everybody who tries to disagree with Salmond, and they turn the whole thing into a Scottish victim/English aggressor overlord scenario, then is it surprising that the average Englishman starts to get rancorous in reply?

It would be nice to see some serious and indepth debate going on up there, as opposed to the "brown shirt" style shenanigans currently being witnessed.

You read the papers, and even the sandal wearing Guardian is going on about intimidation.

The Braveheart cry of "FREEDOM!" doesn't stretch so far as to cover expressing one's views in public, or so it would seem.
Nor does it stretch to any conversation being held that may expose Salmond for what he is.

National-socialism, "brown shirt" style, next will be a comparison to IS/ISIS ...

Whatever the outcome will be: either, Scotland will remain in the UK or still still be part of it for some time and then just a "neighbouring country".

I really do wonder how some will deal from Friday onwards with their still co-patriots.

ISIS? Now you're crossing the line, Walt.

I never mentioned National Solcialism, I never mentioned ISIS. I think you're getting your lederhosen in a twist.

Look at the papers, Walt.

Here.....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2758514/The-Seriously-Nasty-Party-With-one-day-damning-evidence-bullying-intimidation-voters-Scots-nationalists-just-ask-Miliband.html



Here....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11100754/Revealed-Alex-Salmond-personally-pressurised-St-Andrews-University-head-over-independence-concerns.html

Here......
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/scottish-independence-fear-loathing-streets-4272559


And here, to list but a few.....
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence/scottish-independence-alex-salmond-accused-of-campaign-of-lies-on-future-of-nhs-9736662.html


What do you think of my chances ordering a pint in my English accent and not getting a pasting in a Glasgow Pub right now?

Salmond has roused his rabble, and any Scot (let alone English) disagreeing with him right now, does so at his or her own risk. And you just wait until polling day!

Tell me how "Brown shirt style" is not applicable?

What would you prefer.....Thugs? Bully boys? Enforcers?

As you have seen even here from quite rational men (mostly), the xenophobia genie is out of the bottle in many quarters, on both sides, and the subject will rankle for a generation or more.

'Brownshirts' are the SA-men. "Brown shirt style" would be beating and killing Communists and Social Democrats, damging theit house and goods, and last but not least burning Synagogues doing worse to Jews.

Walter, I'm sure you are right about the brownshirts, and I can see how you can use it to win your argument by taking it all to the nth degree, but you know exactly what I was getting at.
I expressly used the word "style", because the organised actions of some of these groups of thugs had shades of that type of organised disruptive behaviour.
From Wikipedia for "Brownshirts" :-

"Their main assignments were providing protection for Nazi rallies and assemblies, disrupting the meetings of the opposing parties, fighting against the paramilitary units of the opposing parties (especially the Rotfrontkämpferbund) and intimidating Slavic and Romani citizens, unionists and Jews (e.g. the Nazi boycott of Jewish businesses)."

The behaviour of these thugs in Scotland may not be as ruthless as those in Germany, but the STYLE of disruption and intimidation is the same.

There is an orchestrated campaign of nastiness and intimidation against No voters there, and if you cannot see how this quite sinister behaviour is in anyway similar in style to that of your brownshirts, then what can I say.

I for one have never seen any politician do this before in a British political campaign. Salmond has whipped up a storm of, let's face it, race hatred in Scotland, and I sincerely hope that ordinary Scots do not suffer as a consequence.

I was pro Scotland up until about a few weeks ago, when I'd finally had enough. I'm pretty ambivalant about it now. Take it or leave it.

It's pretty obvious that a large number of Scots hate the English, and Salmond has tapped into a seemingly easy and plentiful vein, it would appear.

If they decide to go tomorrow, it won't bother me. And I wouldn't have dreamed of saying that a few weeks ago.

We'll get by.

Heh, how does The Independent compare?

Here is a fairly comprehensive rundown on who reads what.....

His predecessor has spoken of a day of reckoning following a yes vote.

The most ironic thing is Salmond is accusing everyone else of bullying tactics, even Deutsche Bank.

I think the element of xenophobia is slight (though discernable) among those who can walk and chew haggis at the same time.



You go with what you've got. Salmond has spoken out in pubic against bully-boy tactics among his more enthusiastic and less restrained supporters.

The contrast here with the long struggle for Irish independence couldn't be greater. The passing of nearly a century has changed many things.

"Salmond has spoken out in pubic against bully-boy tactics among his more enthusiastic and less restrained supporters....."

And as we all know, Salmond always speaks the truth and never does anything for the sake of looking reasonable and good in the media.

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall during his strategy meetimgs since that first Darling debate.

Anyways, I'm goimg to be chopping trees most of tomorrow, weather pending, so I'll find out the likelihood of him winning on tomorrow evening's news.

I was a great believer in Britian up until very recently, and have been bitterly disappointed with what has been going on up there. Whoodathunk, eh?

All that time thinking we were one. All the way through the amazing Olympics, all that cheering for Scots athletes. Even the bloody curling got me up and cheering in my living room!

Oh well. You live and learn.

Rolls eyes. (About the idea of sport unifying the nation, I mean)

Yep. Quite agree.

Every year someting happens to make me cynicler and cynicler.

If it's not a word, it should be.