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THE BRITISH THREAD II

 
 
Lordyaswas
 
  3  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 08:01 am
@Walter Hinteler,
"Some interesting graphics are in the Independent-report: Are the Scots really sucking up a massive subsidy?"......

Maybe that should read: "In what way are the Scots being victimised?"

Or "Should it be the English who are entitled to whinge, instead of the Scots?"
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 08:02 am
Bump
0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 08:02 am
Bump2
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Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 08:03 am
Bump3
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Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 08:17 am
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:

"Some interesting graphics are in the Independent-report: Are the Scots really sucking up a massive subsidy?"......

Maybe that should read: "In what way are the Scots being victimised?"

Or "Should it be the English who are entitled to whinge, instead of the Scots?"
You should use your English influence that the Independent changes the headline!
0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  3  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 08:50 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter, those graphs are not showing the full picture, but even then they show that in no way is Scotland being victimised or treated as a poor relation in any way.


Here are some interesting figures from their very own Governmental website. Link below.

Snippet:-




"In 2012-13, the estimated current budget balance for the public sector in Scotland was a deficit of £14.2 billion (11.2% of GDP) excluding North Sea revenue, a deficit of £13.6 billion (10.6% of GDP) including a per capita share of North Sea revenue or a deficit of £8.6 billion (5.9% of GDP) including an illustrative geographical share of North Sea revenue....."



Scotland has a 5.3million population.

Therefore, if the £14.2billion deficit figure is taken, that equates to a subsidy of £2679 per head.

But using the oil revenue spread across every UK head, Scotland's deficit would then equate to £13.6billion, which equates to £2566 per head

Even if you use Salmond's warped logic, and say that every bit of oil revenue deemed to be in Scottish territory is then only shared out between the Scottish population, then the deficit is brought down to £8.6billion, which equates to £1622 per head.


Using the set of figures where Scotland keeps every penny of its oil revenue, and which paints the best picture, the rest of the UK (let's face it, the English by and large.....seeing as we make up 91% of the UK) subsidised every man, woman and child in Scotland last year to the tune of £1622 each.

An ordinary family of four (two adults, two children) had £6488 more spent on them than an equivalent English family.


And they want more.

I just hope Salmond has a good yarn to tell the people in a year or two's time, when their newly independent non subsidised coffers start to run dry.


Link: http://scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2014/03/7888
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 09:00 am
@Lordyaswas,
The linked Independent report wrote:
These figures are all taken from the Treasury’s latest Public Expenditure Statistical Analyses tables and HMRC’s most recent income and tax tables.
Links to government sites are in that report as well.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 09:08 am
Quote:
A SCOTTISH food maker has been told by an English stockist they will not be welcoming his prize winning oatcakes south of the border if Scotland votes for independence.


Fife based Dan Connolly started Your Piece Baking Company five years ago, inspired by the taste of his mother-in-law’s real hand made Scottish oatcakes.

Since then, business has grown to offer eight types of oatcake, eight types of shortbread and a breakfast cereal range - all of which proudly emphasise their Scottish credentials and have consistently picked up top awards for taste - and are stocked at farm shops and delis throughout the UK and abroad.

A customer in Switzerland even let Dan know they had been served up to Mick Jagger and fellow Rolling Stones backstage at a gig in Zurich this month.

However, a farm shop in England, which has not been named, contacted Dan to say that, if come September 18, if the result is ‘Yes’, then it will be saying ‘No’ to Your Piece Baking Company.

The buyer sent an email to Dan to inform him of this change.

The email read: “I regret that although we liked the products, we only support British companies and, given the upcoming Independent Scotland Referendum, we would not consider retailing your products in the same way we don’t retail or support Irish products.

“If the referendum goes for your nation staying with the union then we can re-look at this but as there is a possibility of you becoming a separate nation, we cannot, and would not, support a company which has chosen to base itself in a breakaway country. We as a company support Britain as part of the UK and expect our suppliers to do the same.”

Dan said: “I was really quite shocked and really surprised, but it did make me think that, potentially, there were people out there who could hold these views, given that we send a lot of our products to England. On both sides of the argument you get characters who take these positions. I hope these extreme views are rare.”


http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/english-shop-won-t-stock-scots-food-after-yes-vote-1-3452354

I think the shop's reaction is perfectly understandable after months of anti English vitriol coming from north of the border. The Scots have taken English goodwill for granted, and seem to think post independence it will be business as usual. It won't.
Lordyaswas
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 09:16 am
@Walter Hinteler,
No, I'm not disputing the figures, Walter. I'm having a slight problem with the terminology. It seems as if the writer is setting out to use certain sets of figures to disprove the theory, and is wording the graph titles accordingly.

For instance.....on the graph entitled ....."Its also worth noting that Scotland gets less health spending per head than some English regions"

If you look at that graph, you will see that two regions received more per head than Scotland, but TEN received less, including the MASSIVE regions of LONDON, WALES and NORTHERN IRELAND.

The graph headline could easily have read "Out of thirteen regions, Scotland receives third highest payment."

Etc etc.

Journalists and graphs, eh? Tut.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 09:31 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The differences in various categories of public spending appear to be small, not particularly significant, and probably the inevitable result of a host of minot issues.. What variances might we see in similar data for the German Lander?

We have similar variances as well.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 09:51 am
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:
The Scots who don't reside in Scotland cannot vote. Non Scots who reside in Scotland can.
[...]
They have also allowed 16 and 17 year olds to vote. I wonder why?

Well, I don't know how it works in other countries, but here at referenda those can vote, who reside in the area of the referendum. (Age still varies, not all state allow 16 years old to vote on all elections/referenda.)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 09:56 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
What variances might we see in similar data for the German Lander?
I don't think that you you really can compare Scotland as part of United Kingdom to a German state (Land) within the Federal Republic of Germany - budgets, taxes are different, police and education is states's affair as is (most of) of roads and public transport etc etc

And besides that 'rich' Länder have to "support" constitutionally the poor (Article 107 Grundgesetz: Distribution of tax revenue – Financial equalisation among the Länder – Supplementary grants)
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 10:34 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
However, a farm shop in England, which has not been named, contacted Dan to say that, if come September 18, if the result is ‘Yes’, then it will be saying ‘No’ to Your Piece Baking Company.

...

I think the shop's reaction is perfectly understandable

It is pricks like the owner of that farm shop that make me sometimes feel embarrassed to be English.
Lordyaswas
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 12:03 pm
@contrex,
And what are your views, pray tell, on the months of nastiness aimed towards the English from our Scottish brethren?

Or Is it only the actions of a small English grocer that has angered you enough in all of this to make it worthwhile for you to give us the benefit of your opinion?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 12:19 pm
@Lordyaswas,
You should have watched the football match against Switzerland .... "**** off Scotland, we're all voting 'yes'" sung as a support for the English team.
contrex
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 12:32 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:

And what are your views, pray tell, on the months of nastiness aimed towards the English from our Scottish brethren?

Or Is it only the actions of a small English grocer that has angered you enough in all of this to make it worthwhile for you to give us the benefit of your opinion?


What "Scottish brethren"? From the the polls, more or less half of those intending to vote want to stay. I have heard reasoned arguments and friendliness from many Scottish nationalists. I was in Edinburgh three weeks ago for work, and had a very nice time and was very nicely looked after. If I see a prick, on either side of the border, I'll call him that.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 01:30 pm
@contrex,
How is that any worse than Andy Murray's "Anyone but England," sneer?

Or First Minister Alex Salmond, likening the vote to the struggle against apartheid. He's their leader, and he's coming out with **** like that. It really puts the future plans of a small English grocer, if and when a "yes" vote occurs, into perspective.
contrex
 
  3  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 01:41 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

How is that any worse than Andy Murray's "Anyone but England," sneer?

Or First Minister Alex Salmond, likening the vote to the struggle against apartheid. He's their leader, and he's coming out with **** like that. It really puts the future plans of a small English grocer, if and when a "yes" vote occurs, into perspective.


That's two people, and one of them is a dim sports person. I think it's pointless and childish to get into a pissing contest about who said what, especially pricks like Andy Murray. The word is that the Scot Nats are just waiting for the vote to be over to get rid of Salmond, whichever way it goes.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 04:59 pm
@contrex,
Salmond's going nowhere. He is Scotland.
0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2014 01:12 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

You should have watched the football match against Switzerland .... "**** off Scotland, we're all voting 'yes'" sung as a support for the English team.


They must have been Scottish residents, as they are at least lucky enough to have a vote. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
 

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