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THE BRITISH THREAD II

 
 
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 01:03 am
This is also very interesting, if you can wade your way through the legal wranglings of it all......

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2012/jan/11/would-an-independent-scotland-join-the-euro
0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 01:04 am
MacBump.
0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 01:04 am
MacBump2
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 01:08 am
bump
0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 01:11 am
Bump3 ......

I'll go and walk the dog, methinks.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 01:13 am
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:
"......Speaking on a visit to the Scottish Parliament, Ivan Grdesic, the Croatian ambassador to the UK, said nations wanting to join the EU are forced to “take pretty much what is offered”.

He told the Daily Telegraph new accession countries to the EU have to sign up to terms that are decided in Brussels without any meaningful “negotiating process”.

The EU authorities take a dim view of applicants asking for opt-outs from the various European treaties, he suggested, as this indicates they “don’t want to take the responsibility of membership”.
His intervention undermines Mr Salmond’s claim that a separate Scotland could join the EU in only 18 months while obtaining opt-outs from the euro and the Schengen free movement area....."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10418890/Independent-Scotland-would-have-to-accept-the-EU-template.html
True, since the EU is an Economic and Monetary Union - but even Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland and Sweden do not currently have a target date for adoption of the Euro.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 01:36 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Views (opinions) on the Scottish independence from seven EU-member states, published rather recently (08/08/2014); Scotland: Out of the UK and Into the EU?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 02:00 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I think it to be very interesting that only now ...
Quote:
Chancellor George Osborne promised that a "plan of action to give more powers to Scotland" would be unveiled in the next few days, detailing the timetable and process of any further devolution.

He told BBC1’s Andrew Marr Show: “The timetable for delivering will be put into effect the moment there is a No vote in the referendum.

“The clock will be ticking for delivering those powers, and then Scotland will have the best of both worlds.”
Source
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 02:16 am
@Walter Hinteler,
"True, since the EU is an Economic and Monetary Union - but even Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland and Sweden do not currently have a target date for adoption of the Euro....."

Currently being the operative word.

Their day of having to hand over all that sovereign power is approaching, though.
For Salmond to wave away such future horrors as if they were a mere trifle is nonsense. And anyone trying to challenge him (Darling) gets a glib one liner designed for the following day's Press headlines.
The Scottish people deserve better than that, but the drum beating seems to have dulled their thought process and prevented them from delving deeper.
Well, that's their potential problem. If they want to shout down sensible debate and argument, good luck to them.
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 02:36 am
@Walter Hinteler,
...."I think it to be very interesting that only now ..."

You make it sound as if the poor Scots have been neglected all these past years, and it is only now that they are being offered crumbs from the master's table.

Get real, Walt. Scotland gets a massive budget each year that it manages totally on its own. No English MP is allowed a say in how Salmond and co. spend a penny of that money. As previously mentioned, the per capita amount is more than is given to the English (barnett formula) and if Salmond wants to give it all away to the easter bunny, he has the power to do so and the British government can't interfere.

How much more do they require before they will be happy? How much nearer to Scotland does this tiny population (around 10% of Britain) want the British government to sit before they are satisfied. It's not as if they have no representation in Westminster. In fact, their MP's have more voting rights than English MP's.
It's like Alaska demanding that the American Senate relocate up there, so that they feel properly represented.

Osbourne should not be influencing by pandering any more, imo. He should set it out straight, and set aside a fund for both sides of the border in the event of us all wanting to have those street parties.

In the 2012 Olympics, the mainly London spectators raised the roof when Scottish competitors were out there vying for medals. We (the English) were rooting for every single one of them, and they know it.
Maybe the big thing about being proud to be counted as British is only an English thing?
Maybe it is time to call it a day?

Salmond has done his job well.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 02:36 am
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:
Currently being the operative word.
Currently? That was (and still is) the most important point/aim from the very beginning onwards when the Treaty establishing the European Economic Community (TEEC) was signed decades ago: Determined to lay the foundations of an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe, ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 02:44 am
@Lordyaswas,
I do have a different opinion.

The USA (and Germany) have states, each state is governed by a government ... but neither the USA has a "minister for Alaska" nor we have a "federal minister for North Rhine Westphalia". (But a do have a Minister for Federal Affairs and a North Rhine-Westphalian Representative to the Federal Government in Berlin (Even the city states Bremen and Hamburg have got it.)
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 02:46 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Exactly, and that is why I highlighted the currently in relation to those countries who have not yet had to adopt the Euro.
They 'currently' have sovereign power over their monetary affairs.

The day will come when they no longsr 'currently' control any of their main economic budgeting, which will be overseen by the headmaster in Brussels or some other bureaucratic tower block.
They will then have to hand over considerable powers to Europe and sink or swim with the Euro.
How well do you think that the Eurozone is working out at this moment in time, Walter?
Anyone thriving ovefr there? How's mighty pro Euro Germany making out?
Last I heard was that nobody wanted to touch Germany's bonds with a bargepole.

This is probably Scotlsnd's future......
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 02:52 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

I do have a different opinion.

The USA (and Germany) have states, each state is governed by a government ... but neither the USA has a "minister for Alaska" nor we have a "federal minister for North Rhine Westphalia".


So you're basically admitting that we British give a lot more direct power to the Scottish part of Britain than America does to Alaska or you do to NRW.

Why are you so nasty to the poor NRW population, Walter? We devolved power to the Scots years ago, and find it surprising that you can neglect an area so badly.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 02:56 am
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:
The day will come when they no longsr 'currently' control any of their main economic budgeting, which will be overseen by the headmaster in Brussels or some other bureaucratic tower block.
Actually, it's the EU-parliament. Which is democratocally elected.
But where most of the UK is making fun about. And when this parliament decides something .... some foreign prime minister, whom I didn't have a change at all to elect, oppose it.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 02:56 am
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:

So you're basically admitting that we British give a lot more direct power to the Scottish part of Britain than America does to Alaska or you do to NRW.
No.
0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 04:35 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Lordyaswas wrote:
The day will come when they no longsr 'currently' control any of their main economic budgeting, which will be overseen by the headmaster in Brussels or some other bureaucratic tower block.
Actually, it's the EU-parliament. Which is democratocally elected.
But where most of the UK is making fun about. And when this parliament decides something .... some foreign prime minister, whom I didn't have a change at all to elect, oppose it.


Good try at sidetracking, Walt, but we're not here to talk about your willingness to hand over major budgetary powers to a team of mainly non fellow countrymen, we're here discussing the fact that this is exactly what Salmond is complaining about!

Part of the reason that he is making trouble is because, as he sees it, Scottish budgetary policies are being made in what he views as a foreign country (England) and is demanding that Scotland has total power over its own finances.

He omits to point out the fact that there are Scottish democratically elected MPs sitting in Westminster and taking part in these budgetary decisions.

He also glosses over the fact that if Scotland was to go into the Euro, then this situation will get even worse, with budgetary decisions being made by people who have English as a second language and sit a few hundred miles further away from Holyrood than Westminster does!

How many Scots elected MEP's would there be sitting in and voting on such Euro budgetary decisions?
What proportion of the overall voting pool would they represent? Probably a damn sight smaller than the percentage currently having their say/vote in Westminster.

The Scots virtually ran Westminster during the umpteen years that Blair and Brown were in power.

Who maxed out the country's credit cards and then raped the big institutions pension pots by taxing their coffers?
A Scot.
Many present day pensioners have a substantially smaller pension to live on because of the imbecile Brown.

Who wacked an emergency windfall tax on oil, in a desperate effort to balance the books?

A Scot.

What nationality filled the post of Chancellor of The Exchequer for the vast majority, if not all of Blair's and Brown's reign, turning the reasonably healthy economic situation they inherited into one of massive National debt which we are still finding hard even trying to start to chip away at?

Scottish.

One more term of office with similar Scottish financial astuteness would have seen us begging for aid packages from the likes of Uzbeckistan or North Korea.

Spare a cup of rice please, guv'nor?



Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 05:26 am
@Lordyaswas,
I must admit that I'm not to good educated about how the financial situation in Scotland as a part of a united kingdom works.

The relation of our states here with the federal government is regulated in the Basic Law ("constitution"). Besides that, our 'upper house's' members are delegated by the respective state governments, and thus influence any law with their state's opinion directly.
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 06:22 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Over here, we don't go in for too much complication.

The British Government give the Scots a lot more per head than the English, and the Scots are then seemingly required via Holyrood to moan until they get more.

End of.
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 08:08 am
@Lordyaswas,

Quote:
The British Government give the Scots a lot more per head than the English, and the Scots are then seemingly required via Holyrood to moan until they get more.

End of.


That is usually bruited around as an established fact, but I have seen it said that it is false. I have seen it claimed, by quite sober sources, that Scotland is a net contributor to the exchequer.

So it depends on whose facts are more in line with prejudices and preconceptions, which line you accept.
 

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