THE BRITISH THREAD II

So you think we should continue licking Scottish arses after a year of anglophobic vitriol coming from north of the border. Enough is bloody enough.

We're not all Tories down here and the fact that the SNP likes to portray us as such shows the real contempt for the English working classes the Scots have.

You don't have to be a Romeo to be sick of all the abuse that we're supposed to take in good faith.

Don't get me wrong, I want Scotland to go independent. I want our MPs to put English interests first. I want Portsmouth to get their jobs back. And more than anything else I don't want to hear the Scots moaning day in day out about how bloody hard done by they are.

So I disagree with Lord Guthrie, but this is interesting:

Winston Churchill suggested that British sovereigns would use either the English or the Scottish number, whichever was higher.[4] For example, as there has never been a regnant King Henry of Scotland (King Henry, husband of Mary, Queen of Scots was a King Consort) but there was a Henry VIII of England, a future King Henry of the United Kingdom would be Henry IX; but as there has been a James VII of Scotland but only a James II of England, a future King James of the United Kingdom would be James VIII. Also, England has never had a King David, but there was a King David II of Scotland, so a future King David of the United Kingdom would be David III, and a future King Richard would be Richard IV, as England has had three monarchs of that name.

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Colourful imagery, if fanciful.
Simon Jenkins said a couple of weeks ago on TV, that the English (he didn't say the English Establishment) had always regarded the Welsh, the Irish and the Scots as second-class citizens, and had towards them a patronising and neo-colonial attitude.
Many Scots would recognise that as accurate.
So I suppose it all depends on your viewpoint and prejudices.

When your mates lose their jobs just to satisfy a bunch of ungrateful Englishmen then you can talk.

Your first post on returning from holiday was to say something you hate about the English. That says it all. I have only responded to what you said.

Btw, Simon Jenkins is full of ****.

I was unaware there were any ships built at Portsmouth since HMS Victory, until this year.
Have you any notion of the amount of shipbuilding capacity which has been lost on the Clyde? For what should the Scots be grateful? A few crumbs thrown their way to garner some votes, some short-term electoral stunt?
Do me a favour.

Actually, HMS Clyde was the first ship built entirely in Portsmouth Naval base for 40 years. (She was launched on 14th June 2006.)

[It's exactly 50 years ago ok, it was in August 1964 - that I've visited the Victory the first (and only) time.]

You were unaware. On the South Coast we're only too painfully aware.

As always Scotland gets what Scotland wants, but it's never bloody enough.

How do you know when the flight from Glasgow has arrived at Gatwick?

Because half an hour after the motors have been turned off it's still bloody moaning.

I'm reminded of the Dr. Who episode where Amy Pond first became a companion, and they visited the UK in the future when it was an island space city riding on the back of a giant space whale. There was a brief comment about the Scots having insisted on being off on their own separate space island, which was met with an approving "good for them" from Amy.

I'm curious though. If Scotland secedes, will "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" have to be replaced with "United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland"?

Anyway, my perspective is probably because I'm from a state that is well-integrated into a larger country with few ill effects, but I can't imagine why any Scot would want to be independent from the UK, can't imagine why the UK does not want to fully integrate with the EU, and can't imagine why none of you want to use the Euro for your currency.

Also, if the Scots do want to break away from the UK, why do they not also want to break away from NATO and the EU? Seems like an odd form of independence if you ultimately remain part of the overall larger structure.

Anyway, whatever happens, I hope it all works out and there are no hard feelings.

I don't think that national independence has something to do with the memberships in an international organisation.

"It is seldom difficult to tell the difference between a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine."

I really don't want to fall out, I've just had it up to here with the referendum. Can't we talk about something else, like England's potential wipe out by Switzerland?

I had no idea the feelings ran so deeply, but yeah, how about those Swiss?

They're very good. They did quite well in the World Cup, remember? You did follow the World Cup, didn't you?

Without knowing what was in it? No.

I'm sure the subject has become wearying to some of you, but I note in our news today that a recent poll has, for the first time, indicated a majority, albeit very slim, for Scottish independence in the coming referendum.. I have little direct understanding of the motives involved here, and am inclined to see the matter as more a vestige of the past than a concrete contemporary issue, tending to expect a result similar to that of the independence movement in Quebec, Canada. However it appears there may be more to it than that.

There doesn't appear to be any intermediate solution on the table, and a complete separation would, in my perception at least, create some rather large challenges for both states, that appear to me to far outweigh any benefits I can see. There are some cultural differences (but based on recent visits, London appears to be far more differentiated from the rest of Great Briton, than Scotland from England,) , and politically Scotland appears to favor Labor while England the Tories. Beyond that the history of the past two centuries has largely created a united country.

Is there a realistic prospect of Scottish Independence arising from the referendum? If so will the nations be able to work out an intermediate state in which some serious monetary, political and security issues can be mitigated?

In a few seconds I will listen to the "Flower of Scotland" ... the "national anthem" for the Scottish football team (playing in Dortmund, the largest city in Westphalia - the latter unfortunately being part of North Rhine-Westphalia ).

I take it that's the "other" Westphalia.

It's the rest of the real one - Napoleon's Kingdom of Westphalia covered the territory which could be considered as Eastphalia