THE BRITISH THREAD II

Dalrymple was English? That wants checking at least. Check Carnegie while you're about it. And some more of the names on your Declaration of Independence. The development of Texas and the American southwest was financed from Edinburgh, too.

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My list was of generals & Admirals in the English forces during our revolution.

Most of the Scots involved were on our side. Perhaps I should have included poor General O'Hara. When the vain General Cornwallis surrendered to Washington at Yorktown, he feigned sickness and sent out O'Hara, his deputy, to surrender his sword.

I'm not sure what specifically you are referring to in the "development of Texas and the American Southwest". The cattle trade was the initial factor and, of course, petroleum, a century later, was another. There was a lot of British capital involved after our Civil War however (relations weren't very good before and during that event).

I agree with you about the Scottish enlightenment.

Topically, tonight on our TV service there is a programme entitled "Clydebuilt: The Ships That Made the Commonwealth"

"...that made the Empire" would be a more accurate title, since the Commonwealth came later. Romeo can explain that, and tell anyone who doesn't know, where the River Clyde is.

I know where it is ...

It's good thing that Scots are so self-effacing and never overbearing about their many achievements.

A moderately amusing tidbit about that enlightenment.... When the ground-breaking Scottish geologist (I've forgotten his name) first announced his theories about the geological age of the earth (billions of years) based in part on the discovery of fossilized marine life in the highland hills, his findings were soundly rejected by Lord Kelvin (Thompson), who I believe was then a Professor at Glasgow, based on his assertion that the sun could not possibly last that long with any feasible source of energy.

insular mindsets are an ever-present danger for even the best of us.

Mate, I always used to like the Scots and was proud to call myself British, but now that a lot of them want to split from England I don't feel so welcoming towards them, and I now call myself English which is my way of splitting from them, and of course I'm giving them flak in this thread, especially the scotch immigrants who have dumped themselves on England.
You ain't seen nuthin yet, because if Scotland does go independent, the scotch immigrants are going to take some serious hassle not just from me but from the rest of the English people who'll taunt them with stuff like- "What you doing in our country you bloody immigrants? Why don't you **** off back to Scotland now it's become independent?"
The jocks will be asking for trouble and they'll sure as hell get it..

Is this a tempest in a teapot? I find it very hard to believe that the Scottish people would actually vote for their separation from the UK, However, I don't really know and understand enough about real attitudes there to have a serious opinion on the matter. I enjoy all the kidding and irony about the possibility, but find it hard to believe it will actually happen.

No. It could well happen. Planning is going on now, in case the result is a victory for the 'yes' vote. If I were a Scottish resident, I'd vote 'yes'.

And not only that: someone once said "It is seldom difficult to tell the difference between a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine."

I don't see a justification here. If Norwegians, French, Italians live and work in England (or in any country other than their origin), such remarks would not be expected from reasonable people.
Scots, independent or not, would be precisely the same.
Maybe you move in the wrong circles, Romeo. Widen your gaze a bit.

If the Jocks vote 'Yes' to Independence, the English will feel insulted and take it to mean the Scots don't like them.
Scots in England will therefore be seen as "immigrants" and "second class citizens" sponging off the English just like all other immigrants do, and I can foresee groups of BNP and EDL patriots going around doing "jock-bashing"..

Nobody likes the English. Get used to it.



Mrs Thatcher, your revered leaderene, used the revenues from Scottish oil to demolish British manufacturing. Dependent thereafter on revenues from the financial sector, Gordon Brown and Fred Goodwin, with some help from overseas, contrived to collapse the banking system. The Jock giveth, and the Jock taketh away.

Lots of people like the English, the Dutch love us, so do the Cretans, and we're very popular in Mexico.

Then Scotland would become a minor province in Europe. As it is Scotland is represented in Europe by the British Government in which Scotland has considerable influence.

A similar situation would arise at the UN.

That's right, Spendy. And The Guardian today tells us that Mr Salmond's figures are fanciful at best.

If I had a vote, which I unfortunately do not, I've always been a "NO"

Salmond's figures are based on economic growth which he takes as a given, when the SNP are able to conduct their own policies free of Westminster. I may be wrong, but he's yet to give any indication of what those policies might be.

I ought to have mentioned the British Government's seat on the Security Council and the veto powers that go with it.

The representatives of an independent Scotland would find themselves wandering about the corridors of the UN and European institutions like a Girl Guide lost in a snowstorm and having to open their car doors themselves. Contrary to what Scottish ministers in the British Cabinet were required to do.