54
   

THE BRITISH THREAD II

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Apr, 2013 03:09 pm
@McTag,
I didn't see that. But I'd been a bit confused by this news ...

http://i45.tinypic.com/16lapk.jpg

0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 04:34 am
@vonny,
I learnt my Geordie working part time in a meat packing factory when I was a sixth former. They were canny lads alright (alreet).
spendius
 
  3  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 07:47 am
@McTag,
If anybody's carpets need biting just send for izzy and sit him in front of a recording of the PM's tribute to the mad woman.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 08:24 am
@spendius,
My impression was Thatcher did the UK a great deal of good. London was pretty seedy looking in the late 1970s after three decades of advancing socialism. An odd combination of recollections of empire and listless makework. The low energy brown coal the striking miners produced was no longer an economically (or environmentally) viable source of energy and the government industrial monopolies in that and other industries were mostly low on creativity, inniovation and energy, and either failing or being out competed by rivals in other countries. It is at least interesting that the economic reforms Thatcher introduced have for the most part been retained ever since. Were those who followed her wrong in doing so?

The rancor expressed here seems (to me) to be out of proportion to the events. I'll concede, I'm an outsider and not able to readily grasp local perceptions and the atmospherics involved. However, it seems to me that over her eleven years as PM she did the UK a great deal of good, and that you are now far beter off than you would have been if the Harold Wilsons of Labor remained in power.
spendius
 
  4  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 09:44 am
@georgeob1,
Harold Wilson or Ted Heath would never have got us into this state George.

Your "hep-two-three", noses to the grindstone approach, with everything shipshape and shiny, which befits the senior officer's valets, is in that line of "hard work never killed anybody lad" genre so popular with the pop-eyed, pot-bellied parasite classes. The dear lady, along with her imitators, Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron have instituted the "whatever you wish to keep you'd better grab it fast" style.

She was turned down by ICI on her first job application for some faults which are said to be an advantage for a Prime Minister to have. Perhaps you should look in the files of your large companies for something similar and you could get one like her yourselves. A self-opinionated handbagger, It would suit you from what you say. Sarah Palin with a majority in both Houses.

Her son, who is a very average sort of chap, is a knight, a billionaire and lives in secure accommodation to avoid being captured by some African bounty hunters in the pay of governments which will make him wish he had never been born if they get their hands on him.

During the serious inflation, which was very useful for the newly-weds if not the genteel, she advised the ladies, on TV, to stock up their freezers as she was doing.

She alienated every decent politician in the Tory party and ended up with a cabinet of shoe lickers. She started a war to win an election which the polls predicted would humiliate her. She goaded George Bush Snr. into "doing something" about Kuwait. A feudal society. Which led, as you know, to where we are now. I think she would have started a world war to avoid conceding a point.

She unleashed greed and selfishness.

And her autobiography is unreadable.

oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 10:29 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
She started a war to win an election which the polls predicted would humiliate her.


I hope you don't mean the Falklands, because Argentina started that war when they invaded British territory.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 10:49 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

She goaded George Bush Snr. into "doing something" about Kuwait. A feudal society. Which led, as you know, to where we are now.


I do believe tthe original Gulf war was a great mistake. Kuwait (like Bahrain) was merely a convenient creation of the British Empire surrounding then known oil discoveries (it suited the British to have easily controlled local "governments" in their employ). We had no interest in Kuwait as such and, Saddam was at least a useful enemy of Iran.
0 Replies
 
vonny
 
  5  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 02:08 pm
@georgeob1,
Did the UK a great deal of good? You can't be serious? Whole towns died because of that dreadful woman. She closed pits, damaged industry nationwide, killed off whole communities. The harm that she did to the UK was immeasurable. Thatcher was a monster. The Tory party ignored her for years, but suddenly, overcome by some strange guilt, they've embraced the whole concept of Thatcherism again. She set in train the events that brought this country to its knees.

Rancour - no, not out of proportion to events. Quite fitting actually.
vonny
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 02:14 pm
@izzythepush,
I still haven't really learnt Geordie! Understand it - yes; spent a lot of time listening to stable boys carefully enunciating the sing-song dialect of my home town and tried sooooo hard to get my tongue round it. But to no avail - not the easiest language to learn. Latin's a lot easier! Auf Wiedersehen, Pet, was a brilliant introduction to the dialect - taught me a lot!
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2013 07:12 pm
@vonny,
vonny wrote:
Did the UK a great deal of good? You can't be serious? Whole towns died because of that dreadful woman. She closed pits, damaged industry nationwide, killed off whole communities. The harm that she did to the UK was immeasurable. Thatcher was a monster. The Tory party ignored her for years, but suddenly, overcome by some strange guilt, they've embraced the whole concept of Thatcherism again. She set in train the events that brought this country to its knees.


Just the opposite. Before her 11 years, the UK was beset with rolling blackouts, and most people in the UK could never even hope to own their own homes.

Now the UK is a successful modern economy and is one of the world's leading financial centers.

You were on your knees before she took power, not after.
McTag
 
  5  
Reply Thu 11 Apr, 2013 12:20 am
@oralloy,

Thatcherism has benefitted London, and harmed the rest of the country.

A minute's silence at football matches? Good luck with that.

I'll be surprised if the funeral goes off without incident. If it does, it'll be under the protection of unprecedented force. Her Madge might get to see the other people who live in this country.
izzythepush
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 11 Apr, 2013 03:14 am
@vonny,
vonny wrote:

I still haven't really learnt Geordie!


It took me nine months to finally crack it, and not have people ask if I was a Cockney. Basically anything south of Yorkshire is Cockney to Geordies.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Apr, 2013 03:31 am
@McTag,
McTag wrote:


Thatcherism has benefitted London, and harmed the rest of the country.

A minute's silence at football matches? Good luck with that.


Funny how the only supporters of Thatch on this thread are loud mouthed foreign fascists who think being American gives them the right to tell everyone else what to do.

Thatch benefitted the City, that's why there were celebrations in Brixton when the witch died. Incidently there is a movement to make Judy Garland's Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead the number one single.

Oralboy sounds like the Daily Mail bleating about it being a state funeral in all but name. They don't like the italicised bit. If there is a minute's silence at any football match the only thing it will prove is that ordinary fans have been priced out of the ground.

It won't happen. I remember when we were daft enough to attempt a minute's silence for Ted Bates before a match against the skates. Bates was never a divisive figure.
0 Replies
 
vonny
 
  3  
Reply Thu 11 Apr, 2013 03:45 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
the UK was beset with rolling blackouts, and most people in the UK could never even hope to own their own homes.


Were you here then? I was, and it wasn't half as bad as painted in foreign press. The rare blackouts were treated as fun by many Brits - candles in the office made for laughter and a sense of camaraderie.

And we owned our own home - like many newlyweds we had saved for a deposit - didn't expect or ask for a council house to be sold to us cheap - that little stroke of hers caused the housing shortage in social housing that's so problematic nowadays!

On our knees - not us! She brought the country to its knees - yes, mining and industry suffered badly - but the people - never!

0 Replies
 
vonny
 
  3  
Reply Thu 11 Apr, 2013 03:55 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
and not have people ask if I was a Cockney


In Newcastle the accent is almost expected of you - I've had taxi drivers take me on the 'scenic route' because they were assuming I was a Southerner. Then, when I started living in the South, if I mentioned that I was a Geordie, I was repeatedly asked when I had lost my accent! People down here are inclined to believe everybody from the North-East is a singing hinny! A lose/lose situation!

South of the Tyne rather than south of Yorkshire is the definition of a Southerner! My husband is from North Yorkshire, but I always think of him as being a bit of a Southerner, much to his chagrin!
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Thu 11 Apr, 2013 04:03 am
@vonny,
My dad's a Yorkshireman, and he never saw eye to eye with the Geordies. It really pissed him off when I started talking Geordie. I pick up accents fairly easily, having been born in Kent to Yorkshire parents.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Apr, 2013 10:29 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
'Ding Dong! The Witch Is Dead' has risen to number one in the iTunes chart, and so far sits at number 10 in the Official Singles Chart due to a campaign to get the track to number one following the death of Margaret Thatcher.

The song, from the soundtrack to the 1939 film 'The Wizard of Oz', appeared in the chart just 12 hours after the death of the former prime minister, and has been rising ever since.


http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/ding-dong--the-witch-is-dead-heads-for-number-one-following-thatcher-s-death-093612344.html
0 Replies
 
Tryagain
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Apr, 2013 01:55 pm
It is a sad reflection on society when a democratically elected woman can be vilified after death; more so when the facts don’t support the disrespect.

Mining and industry suffered badly
She closed pits, damaged industry nationwide, killed off whole communities.”
The harm that she did to the UK was immeasurable.”
Thatcher was a monster.”

The largest number of closures by far, 93 pits, were closed under Harold Wilson in the 60s.

The next highest closure period took place under Jim Callaghan in the 70s.

Mrs Thatcher didn't take office until 1979 when just 22 pits closed during her tenure in the 80s.

Labour's closures far exceeded those of Mrs Thatcher.

These statistics were printed in the Chronicle on January 27, 2005.

The last pit in the North East to be closed, Ellington, was closed under Labour.

The last North East shipyard to be closed, Swan Hunter, closed under Labour, as was the last steelworks on Teesside.

Mrs Thatcher was responsible for bringing the first car manufacturer, Nissan, to the North East.

Note:
Jobs were lost in numbers that dwarfed anything under Thatcher. 264 pits closed between 1957 and 1963. 346,000 miners left the industry between 1963 and 1968. In 1967 alone there were 12,900 forced redundancies. Under Harold Wilson one pit closed every week.

1969 was the last year when coal accounted for more than half of Britain’s energy consumption. By 1970, when the Conservatives were elected, there were just 300 pits left – a fall of two thirds in 25 years.

As an aside, not one of her union reforms was changed or removed during Labours 11 year return to power.

Your vitriol is like blaming Sir Winston Churchill for collateral damage whilst winning freedom from tyranny.

This is my first and last ‘political’ post, done as a thank you to all the Brits who fought against communism and fascism – Peace out dudes.

georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Thu 11 Apr, 2013 02:14 pm
It seem my views of Thatcher aren't widely held among the Brits here - perhaps an understatement. I wonder if they are a representative group. We see a bit of that in our press too.

The Western World appears beset by self-doubt and perhaps a bit of self-loathing right now. Perhaps in part a result of the cyclic economic reversals. Meanwhile the eager capitalists of China and, to a lesser extent, India are eating the lunches of some of our major industries - i.e. some of the folks who pay for our inflated governments and nice social benefits.

I am truly bewildered by condemnations of Thatcher for allowing the closure of already uneconomic and failed brown coal pits. As economic entities these things were already long dead, and were instead consuming energy and wealth better directed in other areas. That the people directly served by them would have to make some adjustments was already inevitable under any government.

I realize that, as an American, my view of all this may be inaccurate in important ways, but, apart from a lack of empathy in her public pronouncements, I haven't heard anything that would explain all the vitriol.

Life involves challenge and change. Leaders who pretend to "protect" people from the inevitable, aren't leaders at all.
vonny
 
  3  
Reply Thu 11 Apr, 2013 02:37 pm
@Tryagain,
Quote:
Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments


Partial truths, twisted facts, distorted reasoning - yes, of course you can make an argument to support your argument. To go through your post, point by point, rebutting each one, would be tedious ... and pointless! Your mind is quite obviously made up. So be it!

But I note you didn't mention the little things she did like take school milk away from children - remember 'Margaret Thatcher the milk snatcher'? Or selling off playing fields - another of her ideas? Or countless little miseries she inflicted upon this country. Too many to rehearse.

I am not a political animal - just someone who remembers, all too well, the years of her 'reign'. This country was a happier place in the 60's and early 70's. I rest my case!

 

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