THE BRITISH THREAD II

@McTag,

Quote:

How long does it take you to untwist your knickers when you're getting dressed of a morning?

That's not a very good argument with which to pin your accusations against the Prime Minister to any sort of wall Mac. And from what you've said you have voted for Labour and presumably you voted for Labour before. I never vote so I have no responsibility for the war. I'm content to leave you clever chaps in charge. I hope your wives vote according to your instructions.

I think most MPs voted for Mr Blair's Iraq policy. And the 139 MPs who didn't only voted for an ammendment saying that the case for war was not yet proved. Which isn't a vote against the war. Only the timing of it.

I assume you think that the 419 who voted against that ammendment all have to untwist their knickers in the morning.

And your remark is hardly up to addressing what I said about the comforts of hindsight and hypothetical situations.

And as far as I'm aware no Arab government raised any serious objection to Allied intervention in Iraq.

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@spendius,

Quote:

And as far as I'm aware no Arab government raised any serious objection to Allied intervention in Iraq.

And why would they? Saddam was trying to position himself as a pan-arab leader. No-one thought this was a good idea except him.

I spell amendment this way.

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@spendius,

Quote:

And your remark is hardly up to addressing what I said about the comforts of hindsight and hypothetical situations.

Your hypotheses about hindsight suffer from the disadvantage of being too vague, and too generalised.

Iraq and Afghanistan- most neutrals could see the proposed invasion was immoral, dishonestly justified, and probably doomed to failure. I also think it was illegal, if international law is robust enough to deal with such a crime. It certainly should be.

Deregulation and sycophatic support of the financial services systems- was there ever a more nauseating performance that Mr Brown's speech at the Lord Mayor's Banquet? It was obvious, having run our manufacturing base down, financiers were making their huge profits from pure trickery.

"Ill fares the land, to hastening ills a prey
Where wealth accumulates and men decay"

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@McTag,

Well Mac--I basically agree with both those positions but I'm damned sure I have no alternatives to offer and nor do I think there are any. It is unsafe to proceed on the basis of a hypothetical alternative not to say a bit unfair on the grounds it is not being tested.

I didn't see the speech you referred to but I'm sure Mr Brown thought it necessary to be nauseating and that he knew full well that he was being so.

Most people who work in manufacturing would be happy to see the manufacturing base eroded if their living standards remain unaffected. It is a grotty place on average. And there's the increased and ever increasing efficiency of mechanical processes to be considered.

If it took 100,000 workers to make the country's wallpaper and now it takes about 200 what would you do with the wallpaper if the other 99,800 had the machines the 200 now have. I've seen one of those wallpaper machines working. From tree to DIY shop it in untouched by human hand.

Are you a Luddite?

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@spendius,

Quote:

Are you a Luddite?

No I'm not. Other countries seem to be able to modernise their industries and their systems faster than us, regrettably.
Still, we've never recovered from the deeds of Thatcher, and I distrust any tories who might get into power after that experience.
Mind you, I didn't like them before either.

Quote:

I'm sure Mr Brown thought it necessary to be nauseating and that he knew full well that he was being so.

Oh that's all right then.
Your posts are full of interest, Spendy, I'll give you that.

I've seen inside the ironworks and steel pipeworks in Stanton and Staveley and it's like something out of the nineteenth century.

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@McTag,

Sheesh!! There's only 3 results declared and already pressure is building up for a re-run.

You couldn't make it up.

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I just heard you were going to hang your parliamentarians ! Bloody good show, ol'chaps !! Everyone should have a hung parliament, dry the soaks out if nothing else.

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@Ionus,

What a mess.

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@spendius,

People turned away from polling booths.....oh dear...not good enough I'm afraid.

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@Ionus,

That's the story of the day...heads will roll. They're all blaming each other. The polling clerks couldn't process the voters quickly enough.The total numbers were not much higher, but with local elections being decided as well, the process seems too cumbersome.
The Electoral Commission are blaming the local authorities.
Maybe we should get some of that blue ink from Afghanistan.

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@McTag,

Quote:

Maybe we should get some of that blue ink from Afghanistan.

No, no.....no blue ink...just the bombings to keep the people away.

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@spendius,

Quote:

That's not a very good argument with which to pin your accusations against the Prime Minister to any sort of wall Mac. And from what you've said you have voted for Labour and presumably you voted for Labour before. I never vote so I have no responsibility for the war.

Haha Spends! Smile

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Well Gordon Brown is out and Cameron is in. A coalition government in the midst of uncertain times and a budding financial crisis. Interesting times.

My impression is the British voters sort of voted against everyone: apparently a sour general mood. (Not unlike what is developing here.)

Is this accurate? Has the change in government rendered all you Brits speechless?

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@georgeob1,

Floreat Etona.

Actually I'm not as despondent about this as I thought I would be- Cameron as Prime Minister, I mean.
A few years ago, New Labour set themselves up to occupy the centre ground of British politics (and according to their most fervent hopes, in so doing to render the rest of British political parties meaningless, and hold the reins of power for ever). And, incidentally, move away from their socialist base.

And now, this has been done to them, in a very businesslike way- a broad centralist coalition. I think this is the best we could hope for at the moment.
It remains to be seen, in these troubled times, how this cabinet of disparate parts will pull together, but the initial signs are good.

And as for New Labour- without Gordon Brown in a leading role- whither now? Back to more socialist policies, to leave a clear choice between them and the new setup? This will not give them another national mandate in the forseeable future. Years in the wilderness, probably.

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@georgeob1,

Quote:

Has the change in government rendered all you Brits speechless?

There's a thread specifically devoted to our election started by realjohnnyboy.

I have contributed to it.

One cannot draw conclusions from one's own limited horizons.

Here is one of my posts--

Quote:

As John Morley wrote in the Fortnightly Review (a monthly btw) in 1870--

A man born into a community where political forms, from the monarchy down to the popular chamber, are mainly hollow shams disguising the coarse supremacy of wealth, where religion is mainly official and political, and is ever too ready to dissever itself alike from a spirit of justice, the spirit of charity, and the spirit of truth, and where literature does not as a rule permit itself to discuss serious subjects frankly-- a community, in short, where the great aim of all the classes and orders with power is by dint of rigorous silence, fast shutting of the eyes, and stern stopping of the ears*, somehow to keep the social pyramid on its apex, and to preserve for England its glorious fame as a paradise for the well-to-do, a purgatory for the able, and a hell for the poor---why, a man born into all this with a heart something softer than a flint, and with intellectual vision something more acute than that of a Troglodyte, may well be allowed to turn aside and cry for moons for a season.

* Ignore function.

Like your recent election George, our's has been a Mediacorps production from start to finish. Media is going, and will continue going, to very great lengths to shift the blame from itself for the financial mess.

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Is anybody aware of any state where there is compulsory voting apart from Australia ?

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@Ionus,

I'm not sure "compulsory" is the correct word Io. One might choose to pay the fine as some no doubt do.

How much is it these days? Are you fined for spoiling the paper? There are other ways of not voting.

It seems a ridiculous law to me.

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Ionus wrote:

Is anybody aware of any state where there is compulsory voting apart from Australia ?

Yes, some of us know that.

Take a look here

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@Ionus,

Wow, I didn't know you had compulsory voting.
I wish we had compulsory voting.

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@The Pentacle Queen,

I'm glad we don't.

What reasons do you have Queenie for wishing for that.

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THE BRITISH THREAD II

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