55
   

THE BRITISH THREAD II

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 11:16 am
@Walter Hinteler,
(And it's "Steve 41oo")
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 11:31 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Ah thank you, Walter!
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 11:34 am
@CalamityJane,
Zunge rein! Wink
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 12:10 am

I enjoyed, if that is the right word, a history programme on Channel 4 last night describing the events leading to Churchill's decision to destroy and neutralise the French fleet in 1940.

I did not previously know that we had shelled a group of battle cruisers in an Algerian harbour, killing 1200 French sailors.

Also Roosevelt's policies leading up to that were an eye-opener: he was negotiating with Canada to abandon Britain and save the USA only, leaving Britain to its fate.
That bit is left out of our history books, as far as I am aware.
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 01:09 am
@McTag,
And that is only by omission, let alone making up history books..

Fortunately, we can access other sources, like witnesses of said periods...
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 02:35 am
@Francis,

Two or three French eyewitnesses were interviewed in the making of the programme, and the whole incident was filmed by a French film crew.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 03:04 pm
@McTag,
McTag wrote:


I enjoyed, if that is the right word, a history programme on Channel 4 last night describing the events leading to Churchill's decision to destroy and neutralise the French fleet in 1940.

I did not previously know that we had shelled a group of battle cruisers in an Algerian harbour, killing 1200 French sailors.

Also Roosevelt's policies leading up to that were an eye-opener: he was negotiating with Canada to abandon Britain and save the USA only, leaving Britain to its fate.
That bit is left out of our history books, as far as I am aware.


These were very interesting (and tragic) episodes in history in which fear and worst-case analysis drove participants into actions that seem difficult to interpret later when the fear and dark possibilities that then motivated them are no longer a factor. The United States in 1939 and 1940 built a huge naval base, together with drydocks and repair facilities, in Puerto Rico - a facility we didn't need and which duplicated others in Charleston, Norfolk, and Narraganset Bay - expressly (as the folklore went) to accomodate the British & French Navys in the event of their defeat in a war with Germany. It was called "Roosevelt Roads". Subsequent events make it fairly clear that Roosevelt was a strong supporter of Britain, but not of the British Empire.

The truth is that public opinion in this country was decidedly against participation in yet another European War during this period. Had Roosevelt overtly engaged the country in preparations for a European war in 1939-1940, he would have run a good chance of losing his bid for reelection. Interestingly, while this was going on we were actively preparing for a war in the Pacific with Japan. An enormous network of naval bases, airfields, munitions depots and Army training bases was constructed on the West Coast during those years. Most of the Naval War College "gaming" and simulations in the 1930s involved a Pacific conflict with Japan, and almost all of our fleet naval exercises during the period involved similar scenarios. Interestingly this didn't appear to arouse much public outrage.

With respect to the attacks on the French Navy, chiefly at Mers el Kebir , it seems clear that fear and mutual confusion & misunderstanding were the chief drivers on both sides. Admiral Darlan's role, and his earlier assurances, personally given to Churchill, the the French fleet would not fall into German hands remains a bit of a mystery. He was assasinated soon after the Allied invasion of Algeria under somewhat murky circumstances.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 05:28 pm
Has the leader of H.M. Opposition gone stark staring mad? He'll be talking about the dictatorship of the proletariat next.
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 02:21 am
@spendius,

Quote:
Has the leader of H.M. Opposition gone stark staring mad? He'll be talking about the dictatorship of the proletariat next


You are right, Spendy. This seems a bit extreme, even by today's standards. Policy on the hoof. It seems to change by the hour.

I wonder how many of the great and the good are going to be deselected, though?
And how many will be prosecuted?
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 02:52 pm

Oh well, it's only a game.

Gloomy in certain parts of Manchester and Rome tonight, I'll be bound.
I hope too many heads don't get broken.

I personally don't rate Ronaldo. Maybe Fergie hasn't worked out how to use him yet.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 03:19 pm
@McTag,
They were kind of shadow of what they'd been previously.

(I must admit that I really had some fun switching between commentaries in various languages, Spanish, Italian, English, German ... Wink )
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 03:23 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Do you mean Walt that you watched the game as a sort of light shining upon your multi-lingualism.

How very interesting. Have you had your doors widened?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 03:26 pm
@spendius,
Well, spendi, I just like to listen to the excitement of commentators on some scenes. Or how they see e.g. an off-side, a foul ...

I had one window open, since you asked Wink
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 04:46 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
There's only one way to see an offside or a foul. How the ref sees them. Everything else is bullshit.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 May, 2009 12:24 am
@spendius,
True. But some see it louder than others.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 May, 2009 02:56 am

Football politics- Olympic Games

http://www.theherald.co.uk/display.var.2511137.0.0.php?utag=28480
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 May, 2009 05:33 am
http://www.showstudio.com/project/britannica/#1
The Pentacle Queen
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 May, 2009 06:21 am
Horray,
I just booked to go traveling in August.
I am going from, Istanbul (turkey) to Sofia (Bulgaria) to Bucharest (Romania) to Brasov (Romania) to Cluj Napoca (romania) to Budapest (Hungary) to Vienna (Austria) to Krakow (Poland) to Prague (Czech Republic) to Berlin (Germany) to Dresden (Germany) to Amsterdam (Netherlands) to London.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 May, 2009 06:52 am
@The Pentacle Queen,
That's really a nice tour! By car, train, plane or coach?

(I live nearly exactly between Dresden and Amsterdam. If ... our guest room is multiple British-tested, qualified and certificated Wink)
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 May, 2009 07:19 am
@spendius,
As they say,
Mad dogs and Englishmen.....
 

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