THE BRITISH THREAD II

What I'm postulating is that a game that allows more scoring than Soccer reduced (or does not raise) crowd tension.

Basketball is a silly game that does not allow defenders to defend.

Another theory is that lack of onfield violence leads to off field violence. Sporting matches are afterall a substitute for war or tribal rivalries.

Bring back the biff I say.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-BOzQwj4fSE

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spendius wrote:

Great post dp. I didn't think you had that in you.

I had wondered why basketball was so popular. It does look ridiculous you must admit.

Are you suggesting that basketball audiences are so aggressive that they need the cathartic effect of constant scoring to keep them under wraps.

Probably, as dadpad almost said elsewhere, they have close to zero attention spans, get bored easily, and the bored cause trouble. They need regular scoring (any sort will do!) to release tension.

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More scoring may relieve spendie's tension.

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McTag wrote:

Sir Bobby Charlton and others are concerned there may be an outbreak of loutish behaviour at the next ManU/ City local derby, the anniversary of the Munich disaster.
And indeed there may be, regrettably.

For which City fans will be blamed.

However I was at a Dennis Irwin testimonial at Old Trafford between these teams, a friendly for a charitable cause, at which the ManU fans at the Scoreboard End kept up a chant/song "We F*cking Hate City" to the tune of "These Were The Days".
Thousand of the blighters kept up their moronic, vile, insulting song for ten minutes or more, and no message came over the tannoy to ask them to desist. It was awful to listen to, and there were families and children there too.

I would have warned them, then cleared the section out- which was about a quarter of the ground. But the club management did nothing. They were happy enough to accept the gate money, presumably, but not responsibility for their fans.

So I say, stuff the lot of them, and stuff their hypocrisy. You can't expect to impose standards on a football crowd where there has been such licence in the past.

Well perhaps this Sunday will be a turning point. When "football fans" grow up and remember with dignity an aircrash in which 23 people died. The match and any loutish behaviour will be seen by the whole world, we have an opportunity to show we are not cretins. But I share your concerns that we will fail because fundamantally thats how we are these days. Not very pleasant.

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I was a small boy in 1958, but I do remember (or think I remember...perhaps I've thought about it too much) my father weeping.

He went to the previous home games of the 57/58 European Cup. I have the programmes for Shamrock Rovers, Dukla Prague and Red Star Belgrade.

Also the last game the Busby Babes played in England when they beat Arsenal at highbury 4:5

Then the postponed cup game against Sheffield Wednesday when Jimmy Murphy didnt know who he was going to play so the Utd team sheet is blank.

A few years later I was lucky enough to meet Bill Foulkes who signed a programme for me.

Then in 1968 (amazing it was only 10 years later....it was a life time then) the Final of the European Cup at Wembley against Benfica. Bill Foulkes played that game as well.

My father didn't chant "We F**king Hate City".

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I hope we're not building this up into a problem, unneccesarily. It would be nice if both matches (a minutes' silence is planned for the Wembley international tomorrow and for the derby at the weekend) would be held in the proper spirit.

But these fans don't like each other, a lot. I don't like the posturing and the assumption of the moral high ground from Old Trafford.
I remember when the United captain (Keane) went out deliberately to cripple a City player (Haaland) and even boasted about it in his book. He succeeded, too. And not one word of censure or disapproval was heard from his management about that. In my view Keane and Ferguson should both have been dismissed for that- from the club, not just from the pitch. That would have set down some sort of marker. Some hope.
For reasons such as these, calls for "respect" may well, for some, fall on deaf ears.

But hey, it's only a game, and it's easier to understand if you remember it's not a sport any more.

Supporters clubs have written to the authorities to say that the risk of disruption during the silent tributes is too great, and they should not be held. The authorities have decided otherwise. Let us hope that this will not increase the rancour and bitterness between the clubs- which I think it has a good chance of doing.

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I agree some of the antics from Keane were over the top. But not so bad that he was charged with any criminal offence, and no civil action taken against him as far as I'm aware.

In the pub last night a newcastle supporter was starting to go off on one about how the remembrance was out of proportion and over the top. I had to step in pretty quickly to warn him off getting carried away. This thing still hits a nerve with me. Its nothing to do with Manchester Utd, arrogant on or off the pitch. Its to do with remembering a plane crash that wiped out a good football team and killed 15 more.

Frankly I'm tired of pathetic chants from other supporters about runways and landing lights and how Sunday is the Golden Jubilee. Leeds are probably the worst. I cant put a date on when this started, probably 1980's I should think. I can understand people's jealousy of Utds success, and it has to be acknowledged that Munich was a factor in propelling the club to a world wide following. But if some City or Newcastle or Leeds fans want to have their own celebration where they can run around pretending to be aeroplanes or making paper planes and chanting about slush on the runway let them. In fact I would contribute to a special event just for them. But leave Sunday 10th Feb 2008 alone.

Ok I've done now.

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I think we do go over the top with commemorations and public grief, and it started before Princess Diana's sad end.
Liverpool are among the worst, all the hand-wringing which took place after Hillsborough, when it was the behaviour of the Liverpool fans which caused the deaths. But nobody associated with the city or the football club will admit that.

I have no objection to ManU having a minutes's silence at their next match (ironically the derby) but I'm not sure why we're to have one at Wembley as well.

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"Leave your stepping stones behind, something calls for you.
Leave the dead you left, they will not follow you."

Bob Dylan.

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Good morning .... and behave yourself while I'm at the azur-blue coast!

(Any news from smorgs, btw, McTag?)

Over & out.

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dadpad wrote:

More scoring may relieve spendie's tension.

I choose, and use, my words very carefully!

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Good morning .... and behave yourself while I'm at the azur-blue coast!

(Any news from smorgs, btw, McTag?)

Over & out.

If you're "out" now you won't get this for a while, probably, but....not just at the moment, but hopefully soon.

I hope it's nice in Nice.

You jammy beggar.

(which is quite a nice thing to say, indicating envy Smile

)

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Okay Smorgs is fine, we had a nice dutch lunch today, well Italian actually, and a natter.
She is looking well, as splendid as ever.
Nice to see the old girl again, and in such good form too.

However as a Scouser, she did not agree with my remarks about Liverpool citizens and football supporters being a maudlin self-obsessed workshy criminality-tending melodramatic victim culture.
But I think I got away with it.

Very Happy

McT

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Okay the minute's silence was observed impeccably at Wembley.
Thank goodness.
I think any miscreants would face a longish ban from all football matches.
Excellent.

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McTag wrote:

However as a Scouser, she did not agree with my remarks about Liverpool citizens and football supporters being a maudlin self-obsessed workshy criminality-tending melodramatic victim culture.
But I think I got away with it.

McT

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Give her my regards Mac and tell her that I miss those creative posts she occasionally treated us to.

The only reason there was a respectful silence at Wembley (and that was no minute) is that those who understand the lines from It's All Over Now Baby Blue were cowed. They were doing as they do in Rome. It doesn't mean that they didn't feel like having a boo watching the maudlin machinations of the nostalgia freaks change the nature of the occasion to something which got them back on telly wallowing in their past virtues.

Why don't they have a minutes silence to commemorate the accident in Bhopal or the 50th anniversary of Mrs Johnson getting flattened under the wheels of a truck at the junction of Sumner St and Royal Avenue?

Are they racist elitists or what?

Talk about the ghosts in the machine.

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Well some similar thoughts occurred to me.
Not the same ones, obviously.
If Dagenham and Redbridge went down with the Isle of Wight Ferry with all hands, you know what I mean, on the way back from a soccer tourney, would the England national team and guests hold a commemoration at Wembley, even one year on? I think not.

So I think these ceremonies should properly be held at Old Trafford. Which they did, anyway. No offence.

Okay I've just come back on the bus from Manchester with half a kilo of haddock fillet bought at the market which I'm going to do in a custardy sauce.

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What thread were we using to discuss the proposed muslim call to prayer at Oxford? I can't remember.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/columnists/thomas-sutcliffe/thomas-sutcliffe-perhaps-we-should-silence-the-bells-too-778048.html

I think we should tell them to forget it.
Thomas Sutcliffe makes a few good points, some made before.

Objectors claim the right to broadcast anti-religion slogans at high volume, if this gets passed. But taking the thing to a logical conclusion, it could silence the church bells.

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Oxford wants to hear the Islamic call to prayer, now Cantebury wants sharia law. They've gone mad. imo

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