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THE BRITISH THREAD II

 
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Mar, 2007 02:20 pm
McTag wrote:

Well, you've been sorely missed, Steve, of course.
Well thats nice thanks mac. (I know I can be a bit of a pain Laughing )
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Mar, 2007 03:20 pm
wandeljw wrote:
I am almost afraid to ask.

Has anyone heard from Lord Ellpus?


Not me, unfortunately. I assume he is on furlough or perhaps a sabbatical.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Mar, 2007 03:25 pm
wande asked from across the great divide-

Quote:
I am almost afraid to ask.

Has anyone heard from Lord Ellpus?


I think wande that there was a bit of a kerfuffle immediately preceeding the event with caused the other Brit thread, which smorsie had graciously started to provide a stage on which to strut; she has form for treading the boards but the time limit under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act prevents me from giving further details, to go tumbling down the list of threads and eventually to reach page 2 which, as you might know, is like limbo.

There were dark hints at the time which, with hingsight, seem yet darker.

Maybe his house burned down or he has started playing golf. Never rule out the innocent explanation.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Mar, 2007 03:30 pm
Biting his keyboard I expect. Come in Ellp, all is forgiven. Rolling Eyes

I miss him. Crying or Very sad
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Mar, 2007 03:50 pm
Thanks, McTag and Spendi!
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Mar, 2007 05:35 pm
Don't mention wande. Anything to oblige.

We don't want our allies to be in the dark about anything in these trying times.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Mar, 2007 11:48 pm
And the North resists spreas of London vowels ...

http://i13.tinypic.com/29c5tfa.jpg

Quote:
Map that shows Northerners have the last laff

By Ben Fenton
27/03/2007

The grarse spreading out from its London roots is gradually stifling the graaas, but one of Britain's leading accent experts said yesterday that a larf will never drown out a laff.

Students of the voices that make up a patchwork quilt of spoken English across the country have drawn up a map of the way in which the long "a" of received pronunciation has followed the exodus of Londoners into the rest of southern England.
But a sort of linguistic Hahdrian's Wall just south of Birmingham is keeping the long grass out of northern England and the rest of Britain.

Not so long ago people in counties such as Suffolk, Cambridgeshire, Oxfordshire, Hampshire and Wiltshire would pronounce "grass", "bath" and "after" as if they were spelled with a double "a".

Today, younger generations will say those words as the Queen does, or indeed as they do in the Queen Vic on EastEnders, as if the "a" was lengthened with an "h".

The old, extended "aa" is restricted to southern England west of a line from Cheltenham through Bristol and Bath to the south coast and in a redoubt around Norfolk.

But the curt northern "bath", "staff" and "laff", sorry \u2026 "laugh", has stood resolute against southern invasion. A line drawn from the Severn, just south of Birmingham and up to the Wash delineates larf from laff and it looks like it always will.

It is of course the Northerners who are the honest, basic types and the Southerners merely victims of fashion.

"Originally, we all said 'laff', but about 250-300 years ago the pronunciation 'laaff' was taken up in London and slowly began to spread out over southern England," said Jonnie Robinson, curator of English Dialects and Accents at the British Library.

The library is opening an internet website called Sounds Familiar tomorrow that will allow visitors to hear the enormous variety of accents across Britain and use interactive maps to trace their spread.

One of those maps follows the evolving "a". "No sooner had the "laaff" sound become dominant in the South than, about 150 years ago, people in London began to say "larf" and that, too, is in the process of spreading out, following Londoners as they move," Mr Robinson added.

The library wants people of all ages, but particularly schoolchildren and students, to contribute to the website, allowing a detailed record of accent and dialect development to be built up.

It is hoped to compile a "sound map" of the country.

The accents recorded on the website include voices taped 50 and more years ago, which Mr Robinson said were bound to excite feelings of nostalgia.

He said British society was now so fluid, especially in the South, that accents were becoming less distinctive.

"There is no doubt that what people tap into is the localness of this and when they hear older people speaking, it really reminds them of home," he said.

Huddersfield, for instance, is becoming more like Leeds, while towns nearer Hull that once had their own sound were becoming absorbed into the Humberside accent.

"Really large towns stand firm, but the rest can lose their distinctiveness. And in the South, accents in places such as Reading and Oxford have become more like London."

There are power accent bastions, with Liverpool being the most obvious.

A combination of Irish and Welsh immigrants in the second half of the 19th century gave the city its distinctive voice, but association with what was then not a very healthy or law-abiding urban centre did not appeal to folk within easy reach.

Source
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2007 02:03 am
Difficult to reproduce these sound phonetically.

Laaf, lawf, lahf, lof. I'll stick with laff. (Honest northerner, you see Smile )

Anyone remember Malcolm Muggerige? Mike Yarwood had a lot of fun with his strangled vowels.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2007 02:10 am
<me too, Wandeljw>
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2007 02:11 am
I remember the name Malcolm Muggeridge but not him, himself.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2007 03:01 am
A wind weaving sophist who converted to Catholicism in his last years.

Quote:
The library wants people of all ages, but particularly schoolchildren and students, to contribute to the website, allowing a detailed record of accent and dialect development to be built up.


Why does everybody want us to "contribute" to their website these days?

I have a couple of books on the subject of variation in pronunciation and I have browsed them both a fair bit.

The article quoted is at the level the 3 times table is in arithmetic. It is difficult to imagine any traditional Telegraph reader learning anything from it.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2007 03:39 am
I know The Times has dumbed down. Telegraph also? The Independent has more magazine-style stuff than The Guardian; but they're all struggling for readership/circulation figures. You can't lead on excellence and make money.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2007 04:44 am
I gave up newspapers years ago as a basket case.
0 Replies
 
Clary
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2007 04:54 am
Me too.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2007 06:13 am
I enjoy my Guardian, in fact I'm kind of addicted to it.
A little oasis of pleasure in every day, saving Sundays where I usually try to finish Saturday's Guardian before I start reading The Observer and usually fail in both.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2007 06:35 am
spendius wrote:
I gave up newspapers years ago as a basket case.
Yeah but even basket cases like the pictures. Laughing how you doing Spendi?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2007 07:46 am
I'm doing okay Steve and hope you are.

I just found out that my favourite threader has some similar views to myself.
0 Replies
 
smorgs
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2007 11:26 am
You're so fickle, spends...

Thought I was your favourite threader???

Evenin' all!

x
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2007 11:33 am
What a vision of delight - evening, smorgs!
0 Replies
 
smorgs
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2007 12:10 pm
Hi Walter!

How are you doing, chuck?

Was a lovely spring day here and an early finish from work. I also reduced my carbon stiletto print by walking home from work (I was knackered).

...I just heard the ice cream van - how 'springy' is that?

x
0 Replies
 
 

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