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budgetwater.com <-- Does anyone have experience info?

 
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Feb, 2007 03:40 pm
Re: budgetwater.com <-- Does anyone have experience info?
H2O_MAN wrote:


7 - "Counter-Current" sounds like a slick marketing way to say backwash.


Correction: "Counter-Current" is brining that regenerates from the bottom up for greater efficiency.

Wolfmanx wrote:
Sorry for the confusion.

I realize that I had linked to and RO system, but was thinking something else in my head.

I thought I had read in other posts that most big box stores (Sears, Home Depot, etc.) units were rebadged GE units. My apologies for not being clear.

When you talk about 'the valve', is this the physical valve and the electronics that controll it?

When you talk about efficiency, what exactly does that mean? The amount of water it uses when regenerating and the amount of salt?

Many of the lower end big box store systems are made by GE, most of the higher end big box store systems are made by ECOWATER.

Yes, the control valve is the complete assembly that sits on top of the tank and holds all of the electronics.

Efficiency relates to both water and salt usage plus frequency of backwash.
0 Replies
 
Wolfmanx
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Feb, 2007 01:52 pm
Ok, I think I have distilled everything I've read.

H2O_MAN, I can't express how grateful I am for your patience and willingness to impart your knowledge to ignorant (ME).

A twin tank seems the most efficient system to me, please feel free to correct me on this point.

I found this softener:

Quote:
The SETHC uses a Fleck "high flow capacity" 1 inch (1.0" connections standard) valve with an advanced microprocessor based metered control. The SETHC-9000 has a brass valve body, and the new SETHC-9100 uses a Noryl valve designed for residential use! The SE control allows for easy programming and is packed with features like calendar override, soft water remaining, time of day, service and diagnostic indications, and more! The SE valve delivers a higher flow rate for larger residential applications and uses an "up-flow" backwash for a very efficient cleaning of the softener resin bed. This softener has a "twin tank" duplex design with two separate resin tanks and single brine tank. A twin tank system operates at maximum efficiency, using 100% of the resin of the tank in service before switching to the second tank, for continuous supply of soft water with no regeneration downtime. The SETHC regenerates with soft water and uses a soft water pre-rinse which flushes the resin of hardness and stagnant water before a new tank comes on line. The system stays clean, for optimum operating efficiency and minimum maintenance. The almond colored resin tanks, manufactured by Structural, are poly lined and fiberglass reinforced. All twin softeners supplied with premium grade Ionac C-249 resin, high flow 1.05 inch riser with gravel underbed, brine valve & safety float, and brine tank grid (salt platform). No by-pass valve is available with a 1 inch 9000/9100 valve - a by-pass system can be plumbed in separately.


1) Is this a good system in your estimation?

2) Is the resin mentioned (Ionac C-249) a quality resin?

3) This is twin tank system, does the rating (24K grain, 32K grain, etc.) apply to each tank, or the system as a whole?

4) I read that GE holds the patent on Noryl, so do GE softeners use Noryl valves?

5) In regards to charcoal filters, should I use one for the whole house, or just for drinking water?

6) How much water does a regeneration process consumer?

7) Does and RO system remove the sodium introducing by softening from the water?

Thanks again to everyone.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 07:04 am
Wolfmanx wrote:
Ok, I think I have distilled everything I've read.

H2O_MAN, I can't express how grateful I am for your patience and willingness to impart your knowledge to ignorant (ME).

A twin tank seems the most efficient system to me, please feel free to correct me on this point.

1) Is this a good system in your estimation?

2) Is the resin mentioned (Ionac C-249) a quality resin?

3) This is twin tank system, does the rating (24K grain, 32K grain, etc.) apply to each tank, or the system as a whole?

4) I read that GE holds the patent on Noryl, so do GE softeners use Noryl valves?

5) In regards to charcoal filters, should I use one for the whole house, or just for drinking water?

6) How much water does a regeneration process consumer?

7) Does and RO system remove the sodium introducing by softening from the water?

Thanks again to everyone.



1 - The system sounds ok, but I prefer an efficient single resin tank system.

2 - Sybron Ionac C-249 resin is excellent.

3 - a 1 cubic foot (32K) system should do the job without issue.

4 - I have not seen a GE system in the field.

5 - I like backwashing carbon for the whole house (coconut shell GAC) ahead of the softener.

6 - The new ECOWATER 3500 uses just about 22 gallons of water per regeneration. Others use twice as much or more.

7 - Both the RO and distillation will remove sodium.
0 Replies
 
Wolfmanx
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 07:14 am
Thanks again H2O_MAN!!!

So in summary:

You like a coconut shell GAC FIRST in line.

Then an efficient single tank system (like the ERR 3500).

Then for POU an RO.

Is the RO necessary with the GAC and softener running on city water?
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 07:26 am
Wolfmanx wrote:
Thanks again H2O_MAN!!!

So in summary:

You like a coconut shell GAC FIRST in line.

Then an efficient single tank system (like the ERR 3500).

Then for POU an RO.

Is the RO necessary with the GAC and softener running on city water?


GAC in the #1 position followed by the softener.
Look at the RO as liquid life insurance.

Keep in mind that the GAC filter needs to hold 1 cubic foot of media and it should be rebed every 3 or 4 years.
This filter should backwash once every 2 weeks.
0 Replies
 
Wolfmanx
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 03:58 pm
Quote:
Look at the RO as liquid life insurance.


I'm not sure I understand that statement?
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 04:37 pm
Wolfmanx wrote:
Quote:
Look at the RO as liquid life insurance.


I'm not sure I understand that statement?


Most municipalities are not set up to filter out Cryptosporidium - Crypto can kill.
Distillation, Solid Carbon Block filtration and RO protect you from the cyst found in liquid H2O.

Very Happy Liquid Life Insurance.
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 08:25 pm
Ecodyn owns Ecowater and they manufacture big box store brands such as GE at Home Depot, Morton Salt.com, North Star sold through plumbing/pump supply houses usually, Whirlpool at Lowe's and Kenmore at Sears along with the equipment for Ecowater dealers.

Twin tank immediate demand/meter regenerated softeners are not needed/required by most homes or businesses UNLESS they need/require softened water 24 hrs/day. Otherwise a regular/common two tank (seperate resin and brine tank type) or cabinet model (with the resin tank in the brine tank) like big box store brands is fine.

Upflow, counter-current regeneration (opposite the service flow which is down through the resin although there are a few upflow service softeners) means the brine is introduced to the bottom of the resin and drawn up through it. The regular/normal configuration is down flow, co-current (same as the service flow) down through the resin.

All alternating twin tank softeners have two resin tanks and a brine tank. All use softened water to regenerate with. All use softened water for brine water makeup. No regular two tank type spftener uses softened water to regenerate but some (I sell 3) use softened water for brine refill.

There are millions of co-current down flow type softeners. They regenerate the top of the resin bed first, or 'better' than the bottom while counter-current up flow does the bottom first, or 'better'. "Better" meaning that the resin in the top or bottom respectively, is fully regenerated while the opposite end of the resin bed may not be.

In 99% of installations of softeners it does not matter. It does if you are using the water for manufacturing of IC chips, plating metals etc, where the water could leave a film of hardness on the surface and cause defects. In residential you can never see/feel or know of any difference.

The twin tank salesfolks (Andy is a Kinetico salesman selling twin tank softeners) say everyone should have a twin tank type softener. Kinetico salesfolks say their upflow counter-current type is more efficient. yet the world's largest and IIRC the oldest control valve manufacturer, Fleck Controls, doesn't make an upflow counter-current version in any of their 8 models used in residential/light comercial twin alternating controls that are sold all over the world.

But that more efficient stuff... it is not true as long as both type softeners use the same size tanks and the same volume of the same type resin. Kinetico uses Sybron Chemicals Ionic C-249 and fine mesh C-266 resins and they are available to anyone that wants them. Then both type softeners would have the same salt dose and thereby the same K of capacity and gallons between regenerations... And to have the same SFR (service flow rate) gpm, they both MUST HAVE the same size tanks and volume of resin.

Any resin manufacturer will tell you that by looking at their spec sheet for the resin being used. Then twin tank type softener salesfolks will say that twin tank types use less water and salt.... but that is not true if the same size tanks are used. So they use much smaller tanks but don't mention regenerating each one 1-4 times a day. They also say the reserve of two tank type softeners wastes salt and water but don't admit that the water used to regenerate each tank of a twin tank type softener can use more than one day's reserve in a regular two tank type softener.

I do not support the use or prefilters for most control valves but I do for the water powered Kinetico. They can not handle any dirt including a build up of invisible dirt because of the large number of close tolerance gears required to get water power to work; plus they use some packed bed small tanks that do not have any freeboard so the resin can not expand during backwash to clean it of any dirt build up. For proper backwashing resin manufacturers require a freeboard space of half the depth of the resin bed.
0 Replies
 
Bookem Danno
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 09:31 pm
counter current regeneration
When the term counter current regeneration is used, it refers to the brine rinsing upflow vs downflow in the brine and rinse cycle.
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Dec, 2007 12:13 pm
Yes, that's correct and what I said above:
"Upflow, counter-current regeneration (opposite the service flow which is down through the resin although there are a few upflow service softeners) means the brine is introduced to the bottom of the resin and drawn up through it. The regular/normal configuration is down flow, co-current (same as the service flow) down through the resin".

Welcome to the forum Danno.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Dec, 2007 12:16 pm
If you really want a softener with a Clack valve look at
Hydrospring high flow softeners from waterworldusa.com

HTH ~
0 Replies
 
Danahans
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Apr, 2008 08:19 am
Rainsoft Sales Techniques
I do wish I had read the blogs on rainsoft before I allowed them in my house. They have a strong arm "buy today or else" approach to sales. The prices started at $9,800 for complete system (I already have a functional water softener) All I wanted was a whole house filter for point of entry. They do not sell this so they suggested an entire new system. With a "trade in" value of $3000 for my existing unit (which paid $700 for it in 2001) the price was reduced to $3,995. The sales rep was not able to "sell" the product and had no expertice in the product he just followed the prescribed sales method with absolutely no success on his part. Oh by the way he stated I will see an average savings of $50 a month on my water bill. My average water bill is $17 a month with the all time highest bill at $28 during times of drought when watering yard.
0 Replies
 
lburfield
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Aug, 2008 10:24 am
@Wolfmanx,
If you still want information regarding my experiences with Budgetwater, let me know and I'll give you my thoughts........by the way most are negative.
[email protected]
0 Replies
 
feeling cheated
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2012 02:22 pm
@H2O MAN,
My daughter called this company to talk to them about purchasing a water softening system. She was given a very heavy, pressurized sales pitch wherein she was assured that the system was exactly what she needed. They said if she purchased it immediately she would get a $200 discounted price. She is young so is naive and vulnerable to those kinds of sales pitches. They told her she could get a water sample after the fact. They assured her there was a 90 day refund policy and did not mention anything about shipping and handling. The initial shipping costs were paid for by them. They said the system was easy to install and we could do it ourselves or have any plumber do it. They sent the equipment and we had a plumber look at it. He said we definitely should have had a water test done first and that the system they sent was not the one our well needed. He also said that the system would need a lot of maintanence . We called the company and they said we could send back the equipment but we would need to pay full shipping and handling, both the return handling and the inital shipping to us. This would cost us almost as much as the equipment itself had cost so, in the end, we would not be getting any refund at all, just basically giving them back the equipnment and paying for it too,. They claimed also that we had given them the stats on the water mineral readings as they had them on file. We most certainly had not done that. They were extremely aggressive and belligerant to both me and my daughter on the phone when we tried to work the situation out with them reasonably. This was surely a different approach than the knowledgeable , enthusuastic and all helpful intial approach they used when trying to sell their product to my daughter. I now have to try and get a reasonable refund through filing against them with my credit card company. If I could do this over I would have contacted a local company who could come out to my home directly, assess my well, my system and my water and then install the system for me and maintain it as needed there after. Going on line and buying from and dealing with people like this has been nothing short of a costly nightmare for us. I would never recommend this company to anyone..
0 Replies
 
Tim1234
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jan, 2012 01:01 pm
@Wolfmanx,
Yes budget water is an excellent choice the product is very reasonable most of the systems out there are all made by a couple of companies. A lot of the local outfits will give you a price then it will increase drastically when they check your H2O, do your own water testing , I put a softener,iron filter and Ro system in for approx 25% of the cost of local dealers.
0 Replies
 
Mtp19801
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Oct, 2014 08:14 am
Budget water system works well and the customer service was ok 4 years ago. But now they are absolutely awful tech support is awfull customer service is not 24 hours as promised they give you cell phone numbers that no one ever picks up and always has a full voice mail. I complained to the tech support manager and he simply told me I was rude that he would block my number and provide no more tech support if I continued to complain. DO yyour self a favor and buy from another company
0 Replies
 
 

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