Quote:The Bible states nothing flat out.
Uh, the bible says many, many things straight out.
Quote:It contradicts itself at every possible juncture it can.
Contradictions and anomalies exist, but your statement is rather exaggerated, don't you think?
Quote:I would think that from your discloser that you have read the Bible carefully you would be aware of this.
I see you didn't read my original post. I said :
Quote:Anyone that says the bible is infallible is wrong. It is claimed to written by people as they were moved by God. Nothing in that speaks of infallibility.
Terry said: Christianity, in brief: a perfect God created perfect human beings (who must somehow have altered their own DNA), an omniscient God did not foresee that they would be tricked them into committing a sin before they even knew what sin was, a loving God declared all of their descendents to be inherently unacceptable to him and deserving of eternal torture no matter how hard we try to be good in this life, an omnipotent God was incapable of forgiving us until he created a human part of himself and had it sacrificed to himself in order to save us from himself, for which mercy we are obligated to be eternally grateful and obedient slaves to this omnibenevolent God.
Exactly! This is the best explanation of why I no longer believe. Even "on faith" can't reason this away.
Hi Lunaflynn
(not sure why I'm posting this, seeing as I"m not even christian, but oh well, it seems I like debate)
-Should God have created humans without the ability for free choice? (re sinnng)
-Should God have created laws regarding creatures (incl humans) acceptability in heaven? (re your assertion no one is acceptable to him)
-Should God break those laws for humans?
-Is there something wrong with one of a trinity taking the place/paying the price for humans so they may be eligible to enter heaven?
-Your bit about hell...well, as I've said previously, I personally haven't seen any argument that soundly justifies peoples belief in the version of hell that is common to christianity (not that hell doesn't exist, but that it is how most christians believe it is - a place of eternal torture)
Vikkor,
First of all, I'm quoting another poster so I can't take credit for it. But, if you're asking what I believe, here goes:
-In regard to your questions about heaven and hell, I don't believe as some Christians may in a "literal" physical bliss or torture. I believe that heaven and hell are mental or emotional states - and, I do believe many, many Christians believe this as well. The stability of these states depends upon growth. Therefore, I guess the answer as to whether God should have given us free will, the answer would be yes. So that we can grow and learn mentally and emotionally from succes and from errors.
-I don't think that God is actually "charging" or keeping track of a cost for entry into a "heaven" or "hell" defined on a physically or mentally/emotionally level. I think that we're progressing on a path to total acceptance and understanding of the flexibility of the universe and we either get closer to that or not. So, in answer to whether God should set laws or rules for this goal, I don't know that they would be set so that's a more complex question for me. I think that God sets levels of "goals" maybe more than exact rules to be met. Otherwise God wouldn't have created creativity and flexibility and change. The problem with a part of a trinity accepting the responsibility and reward for a person's growth is a no-brainer to me. Blind faith gains nothing - for the God or the believer.
In regard to quoting Terry and my post to it is an appreciation for the sarcastic humor. And a simplistic way of saying all that I just said without saying it.
This probably makes no sense - but there you have it. Thanks!
