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Fine-Tuning 15, British English/American English

Forums: Fine Tuning, English, Esl, Grammar, Language
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Roberta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2003 11:30 am
Pete, No argument from this Yank re momentarily.
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oldandknew
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2003 12:45 pm
In England, how about Hooker ? In the game of rugby football a Hooker is the name of one of the positions on a team. A left hooker is the slang term given to a left hand drive car, a right hooker is a right hand drive car. How did the term Hooker get given to women for hire, in the States ?
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mac11
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2003 01:12 pm
From Merriam Webster Unabridged:

hooker
1 a : one that hooks especially habitually <that cow is a bad hooker> b slang : THIEF, PICKPOCKET c [from the fact that they fasten their clothes with hooks rather than buttons] usually capitalized : one of the Amish Mennonites d : a worker that uses a hook or hooking device to fasten, move, handle, or form articles with which he works: as (1) : a logger that fastens logs to hooks , cables, or tongs by which they may be skidded or loaded (2) : a steelworker that guides billets in a rolling mill (3) : a sponge fisher that detaches sponges with a sponge hook (4) : a maker of hooked rugs (5) : an operator of a machine for folding and measuring cloth e : a player in the front row of a rugby scrum who hooks the ball
2 slang : DRINK; especially : a copious drink of liquor <a hooker of hard cider>
3 [probably from hook (to entrap) + -er] slang : PROSTITUTE
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2003 03:08 pm
Nine out of ten Yanks will tell you that the term 'hooker', meaning a loose woman for hire, derives from the command of one Gen. Hooker during the American Civil War (1860-1865). It is said that camp followers were so numerous among General Hooker's troops that in time all prostitutes earned the nickname of 'Hooker's troops' and from thence was simply shortened to Hookers. It's such a charming story that it's a shame there is no evidence whatever to support it. Any etymologist worth his/her OED will dismiss it out of hand as pure and adulterated (and, perhaps, adulterous) romantic nonsense.
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kitchenpete
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2003 05:13 am
Merry Andrew wrote:
Nine out of ten Yanks will tell you that the term 'hooker', meaning a loose woman for hire, derives from the command of one Gen. Hooker during the American Civil War (1860-1865). It is said that camp followers were so numerous among General Hooker's troops that in time all prostitutes earned the nickname of 'Hooker's troops' and from thence was simply shortened to Hookers. It's such a charming story that it's a shame there is no evidence whatever to support it. Any etymologist worth his/her OED will dismiss it out of hand as pure and adulterated (and, perhaps, adulterous) romantic nonsense.


90% of Yanks are very well informed, or mis-informed, then!!!

Laughing
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kitchenpete
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2003 05:13 am
Merry Andrew wrote:
Nine out of ten Yanks will tell you that the term 'hooker', meaning a loose woman for hire, derives from the command of one Gen. Hooker during the American Civil War (1860-1865). It is said that camp followers were so numerous among General Hooker's troops that in time all prostitutes earned the nickname of 'Hooker's troops' and from thence was simply shortened to Hookers. It's such a charming story that it's a shame there is no evidence whatever to support it. Any etymologist worth his/her OED will dismiss it out of hand as pure and adulterated (and, perhaps, adulterous) romantic nonsense.


90% of Yanks are very well informed, or mis-informed, then!!!

Laughing
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2003 08:15 pm
That's Miss-informed, Pete. Ahem.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2003 12:47 am
What about pants?

In Britain, they are underwear
In America, they are trousers

BTW, why are trousers and pants always plural?
Scissors, I can just about understand.
But a pair of trousers is only one garment, no?
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2003 12:56 am
kitchenpete wrote:
Just thinking what a beautiful word "ephemeral" is...did you know that dragonflies/mayflies etc. belong to the family of insects known as Ephemera, because of their short (adult) life spans


Yes, that's a good one.

Did you also know that the Exocet missile is named after the latin name of the flying fish family, exocetae

McT (wishing you the compliments of the season)
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2003 01:16 am
McTag wrote:


BTW, why are trousers and pants always plural?
Scissors, I can just about understand.
But a pair of trousers is only one garment, no?

Could it be "the pair of legholes"?
Since things with just one leg-egress are singular:
Skirt, kilt, dress, slip, toga,sarong.
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Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2003 04:06 am
I believe ladies 'bloomers' in the olden days were in 2 pieces - therefore you needed a pair.
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2003 04:32 am
More to the point, why do Americans call a pair of casual trousers 'slacks'? Some are quite tight; nothing slack about 'em.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2003 05:41 am
Vivien wrote:
I believe ladies 'bloomers' in the olden days were in 2 pieces - therefore you needed a pair.


I'm not that sure about it, perhaps the brief history of fashion has some answers? :wink:
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Wy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2003 08:31 am
"Pants," too, were two pieces, one for each leg. In between you had a codpiece...

...and maybe, because in America, nothing is sold as trousers...
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mac11
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2003 09:10 am
Re trousers and pants and their plural form, here's the explanation I've heard, McTag:
Quote:
The reason that these garments are used in the plural is that were for several centuries made in two parts, one for each leg. The two pieces were then put on each leg separately and wrapped and tied or belted at the waist. This applied to both outerwear knee breeches and pantaloons as well as undergarments like pantalettes. Making two separate pieces is how chaps are still done. Ladies' and children's pantalettes as late as the early 19th century were still two-piece garments. The plural usage was so established in the language and popular usage that it has persisted even after the garments had become physically one piece.


http://histclo.hispeed.com/style/pants/trouser.html
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2003 11:07 am
In Ireland, "pants" is used as an expression to mean just about what Americans mean when they say: "Oh, bullsh*t."
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Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2003 11:57 am
Wy wrote:
"Pants," too, were two pieces, one for each leg. In between you had a codpiece...

...and maybe, because in America, nothing is sold as trousers...


yep that's what i meant Smile
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2003 03:30 pm
That's not quite true about nothing in America being sold as trousers. Trousers are not sold separately (those are pants or slacks) but in any decent men's store they are called trousers if they are part of a two-piece or three-piece suit. In fact, I have seen them described in the singular on dry cleaners' receipts as 'trouser.'
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Wy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2003 03:38 pm
I stand corrected. Perhaps I can be forgiven on the grounds I never bought a man's suit... hardly ever been in a "decent men's store" either...
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2003 03:48 pm
There is an indecent men's store in Manchester and it's called the Harmony Centre.

I have never been in there so unfortunately I can't describe the wares to you. Smile

BTW Setanta, in view of the season will you inform us whether you are really a love child of Santa and ET?
0 Replies
 
 

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