Fine-Tuning 15, British English/American English

Okay so why do they call checks 'plaid'?

canadians still call the (american) "check" a (canadian) "cheque" - we still like to be just a bit different. hbg

As to plaid, McT, I'm sure your guess is just as good as mine.

Actually, I think that's just a matter of semantic confusion for some people who don't realize that 'plaid' indicates a very specific Scottish pattern, not just any old check. Since all plaids are based on a checkerboard pattern, the two words tend to get used as synonims by some people.

But, apropos of that, why are sports shirts called cricket shirts in Blighty? Aren't they worn on any other occasions?

I don't think we call them cricket shirts. I'm no expert, but we have polo shirts and tennis-style shirts (I remember we had one called a "Fred Perry" shirt) but we too use the expression "sports shirt". I will wait for Clary or one of the ladies to take the fashion questions.

Shirts used for cricket traditionally buttoned all the way down, and were of quite stout cotton. Things have changed a bit recently though, on the sports field at least.

Nah, never heard of cricket shirts. Sports shirts, definitely. Even golf shirts with little flags on the pockets, and golf shorts with mysterious little pockets for tees. But I'll ask my sons who actually know about these things.

I vividly recall having run across references to 'cricket shirts' in several British novels of the 1940s and '50s when 'sports shirts' were obviously meant. Is it, perhaps, now archaic? Or some sort of euphemistic slang? (Unfortunately, I now have none of these books to hand; this is all from memory.)

Were my father, author of 'The Last Tour of the Arcadians', a nostalgic but unpublished cricket novel set in the 30s, still alive, he would be able to say... I guess there was no reason why people shouldn't be specific, but it isn't particularly recognised now. Past glories... If you google for cricket shirt, you do get specific ones: for example from mstaines.freeserve.co.uk/essex/england-cricket-shirt

I undertook the TOEFL test a couple of weeks ago.
([Paper-based] test of English as a foreign language.)

Since I really just wanted to know, how my English to compares to that of other foreigners, I litterally did no prepare for it at all (just know, the place etc and what it was alike).

Yesterday, I got the results: 597 points (600 would mean "excellent").

Interestingly, and that's why I post it here:

- I got my worse results in that part of the test, where you have to listen to dialogues and your answers are related to these talks,
- my essay (which is not included as a result in the above mentioned score, and which I wrote in British English (= 'English spellings' ), got 6.0 points, which is the highest mark possible.

So:
- I have difficulties understanding Americans speaking 'English'. (If had I got similar results than in the other two parts of the test, my total score would have been 640+ !),

- Americans do know, how to spell correctly and -even more important- accept that!

well done Walter - I would say you English is almost flawless

Thanks Vivien - I'm indedd quite proud, because there seem to be some flawless threads in my brain. Still. :wink:

Here's a good one: can you answer this without looking in a dictionary-

what is the difference between jealousy and envy?

Perhaps,

Jealosy is animosity towards a person who possesses the thing envied ?

I think fresco is right. Jealousy implies a negative active feeling (animosity) whereas envy is more or less passive. I may envy you your new car but it stops there. However, if I am jealous of your new car, I want one just like it (that, or destroy yours).

Incorrect! Sorry.

I saw this in a magazine, and I was surprised I did not know the answer straight away, but I confess I did not.
The point the writer was making, was that the words are beginning to be used interchangeably, but they actually have quite distinct meanings.

no, I think it's more subtle than that. Envy is wishing to possess something of your neighbour's. Jealousy is the feeling of possessiveness about and suspicion of someone trying to get/damage something you already have. I seem to remember jealous and zealous come from the same root so maybe it's the strength of feeling that is important here - you can guard your reputation jealously.

As a lexicographer, I should know, but I will be forced to look this up to see if I'm right afterwards!

Correctamundo! Clary goes to the top of the class.

Jealousy is over something you possess already.

Envy is over something in the possession of another.

So, "jealous/ jealousy" is often used wrongly nowadays, when the emotion described is actually envy.

Etymology is always interesting but shift of meaning is merely an inevitable reflection of the dynamic nature of language. (re: "nice" "mean" "wicked" etc)

Wittgenstein ("meaning is use") built the second half of his career discussing the idea that for philosophers "language goes on holiday" as an alternative to "wrong usage".

That's true, I accept that of course, but are you saying I'm wrong?

I checked this in two modern dictionaries, so I hope & believe I'm not wrong in this case, i.e. I believe it is still "wrong" to use jealousy to mean envy- but a minor misdemeanour, to be sure.

McTag,

You are probably "wrong" in insisting on an original useage. It all boils down to "todays" consensus as to whether the intentions of the speaker are conveyed to the listener.

Consider the phrase "When he was young and gay".
Forty years ago this was no problem !

Well, fine, I've accepted this point already. I suppose it hinges on the fact of how far jealousy has now changed its meaning. I suspect farther in the States than here. I suppose the dictionaries will lag behind a bit, but I think it is an interesting point; and as I said before, one which was not clear to me until I looked it up.

I picked up this point, btw, in The Spectator magazine whose "language and usage" columns are always fascinating. I wish Dot Wordsworth would publish a book of her columns.