Can a Muslim be a Good American?

For a mortal to claim he was God, in this case one of God's favored Prophets, would be disbelief.

Jesus said: "...the Father is greater than I." (John 14:28).

Jesus said in this Gospel: "...I live because of the Father..." (John 6:57).

John tells us that Jesus cannot do anything by his own when he quotes Jesus as saying: "By myself I can do nothing..." (John 5:30).

It is no wonder, then, that in Acts of the Apostles we read that it was God who did the miracles through Jesus (Acts 2:22).

Even when Jesus raised his friend Lazarus from the dead, he had to ask God to do it. Lazarus' sister, Martha, knew this, for she said to Jesus: "I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask." (John 11:22).

etc.

Now who's right?

So the bible is contrary to itself? Make your point!

Here's mine. A Muslim can be as good of a american as any person of any religion. RL, if you want to put up resistance to that, you'd better be ready to bring more than bible verses.

He who is and was and is to come'.

He is also called the Alpha and Omega.

He is also called the Lord God.

He is also called the Almighty.

If you continue to read thru the Book of Revelation (literally the Unveiling) , you will see that the terms Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last are referring to Jesus Christ, and also refer to Him who was dead and now liveth

By Alpha and Omega, are we assuming this was the verse prior to being translated into Greek?

This sesame street approach to proving a Muslim can't be a good American is lame.

RL, then according to you God [aka Jesus] was killed and crucified? Since when can God be killed when he is the All-Powerful?

I've employed 2 Muslims that I know of, and both were wonderful Americans. I regret defending you on your other post. This one is idiotic.

Who are you talking to OB?

You.

Jesus is NOT God. He is part of God. He is the SON OF GOD. That would make him NOT God, no?

Jesus was part man; he was mortal (remember that whole dying part?). He could, at the very most, be considered an incarnate of God, much like we are (except we don't have the divinity that he did)

How do you come to this conclusion? Did you read my entire post? (Particularly the italicized portion).

The NT states that Jesus offered His body as the sacrifice for sins.

Just as when your body dies, 'you' still remain, so when Jesus' body died, the person Jesus still remained.

btw since Muslims consider Jesus a prophet, do they consider Him to be telling the truth when He said He offered his body as a sacrifice for sins?

If you think He was not telling the truth, how could Muslims consider Him to be a prophet?

Yes. Providing racist (for lack of a better word) garbage under the guise of; huh, I just got this in my email is still providing racist garbage. Should you choose to post any anti-Jew, anti-black, anti-Mexican garbage, you can expect the same response.

Wow!!! Racist? Under the guise of? Interesting - your response to this!

Here's the deal OB: My intentions were noble when posting this thread - clearly not racist, [religious-based-yes, but not racist] and like it or not - it was a received email that inspired me to post it. So far - exactly "0" (zero) Muslims have verbally attacked me for posting it. I agree with Phoenix' assessment of the situation; yet have questions concerning some of the Quran verses that were included in the email.

I also find it interesting that you didn't include "anti-Christian" in your "garbage list" - and wonder what your thoughts are about Chai's reply on page 1 of this thread?

Your accusations reek of malice-filled intent on my part - which is clearly untrue. How about in the future - and before you go off on some wild assumption - ask me what my intentions are. I will tell you the truth - good, bad, sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek, etc. and we'll get along just fine. :wink:

Meh, I see no harm in the question. This issues whether we talk about it or not is constantly a part of national/international dialogue.

I think Baddog wasn't implying anything with his original post. Hearing what others can offer in the marketplace of ideas is highly valuable.

It's just a find IMO. The same as if I were to post something from a Hate website and posted it to hear discussion.

I don't thinki there is any hidden agenda.

BG, whoever made that argument simply cut and pasted parts of the Quran without looking further. For example, about marrying four wives:

And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course. (Quran 4:3)

See, there's a warning that follows that very same message, except most people who attack Islam only blindly quote verses without reading the context or even the rest of the verse.

RL, I will answer your question shortly, I have to pray now.

No.

There will be none to intercede for them of those whom they made equal with Allah. And they will reject their partners (whom they ascribed unto Him). (Quran 30:13)

If you call Jesus the son of God, then that is setting up partners with God. Even worse is calling him God when he clearly wasn't. Only God has the ability to intercede, that is why you call upon for Forgiveness and not His Prophets.



To believe in all the Prophets of God is an essential part of Faith in Islam.

Say: "We believe in God and what has been sent down to us; what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes; and what Moses, Jesus, and all the Prophets were given by their Lord. We do not differentiate between any of them. We are Muslims submitted to Him." (Qur'an, 3:84)

Prophet Jesus (PBUH) is actually mentioned 25 times in the Quran by name, that is 5 times more than Prophet Muhammad is mentioned directly in the Quran. However, Prophet Muhammad is mentioned a lot more via pronouns.

Examples in the Quran of Jesus:

News of him being a Prophet.

When the angels said: "Mary, your Lord gives you good news of a Word from Him. His name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, of high esteem in this world and the Hereafter, one of those brought near." (Qur'an, 3:45)

When God gave her the good news of Jesus' birth, He also revealed that Jesus would speak as a baby in the cradle. This miracle became a big help for Mary from the Lord:

"He will speak to people in the cradle, and also when fully grown, and will be one of the righteous." (Qur'an, 3:46)

By this miracle, He restored her good reputation and informed the Children of Israel of Jesus' appointment as His Messenger to them:

She pointed toward him. They asked: "How can a baby in the cradle speak?" He [Jesus] said: "I am the servant of God. He has given me the Book and made me a Prophet. He has made me blessed wherever I am, [has] directed me to perform prayer and give alms as long as I live, and to show devotion to my mother. He has not made me insolent or arrogant. Peace be upon me the day I was born, the day I die, and the day I am raised up again alive." (Qur'an, 19:29-33)

Jesus was also a just, modest, compassionate, sincere, honest, selfless person and a chosen Prophet. In one verse, God says the following about him:

These Messengers: We favored some of them over others. God spoke directly to some of them and raised up some of them in rank. We gave Clear Signs to Jesus, son of Mary, and reinforced him with the Purest Spirit. (Qur'an, 2:253)

Thus you can clearly see that Muslims hold Jesus (PBUH) with great honor as it is clear from these verses that God has favored him from amongst his Prophets. But that does mean that we worship him nor any other Prophet, even Muhammad (PBUH).

There is more information about Jesus (PBUH) in the teachings of the Prophet, for example how Jesus is free from Satan's whispers.

Narrated Said bin Al-Musaiyab:

Abu Huraira said, "I heard Allah's Apostle saying, 'There is none born among the off-spring of Adam, but Satan touches it. A child therefore, cries loudly at the time of birth because of the touch of Satan, except Mary and her child." Then Abu Huraira recited: "And I seek refuge with You for her and for her offspring from the outcast Satan." (Quran 3.36)

Raul-7:

Can you offer insight to this verse as pointed out by the author of original thread?

Quran 4:34

Thanks.

Dealing with the Wife's Ill-Conduct

Allah said,

(As to those women on whose part you see ill conduct,) meaning, the woman from whom you see ill conduct with her husband, such as when she acts as if she is above her husband, disobeys him, ignores him, dislikes him, and so forth. When these signs appear in a woman, her husband should advise her and remind her of Allah's torment if she disobeys him. Indeed, Allah ordered the wife to obey her husband and prohibited her from disobeying him, because of the enormity of his rights and all that he does for her. The Messenger of Allah said,



(If I were to command anyone to prostrate before anyone, I would have commanded the wife to prostrate before her husband, because of the enormity of his right upon her.) Al-Bukhari recorded that Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah said

(If the man asks his wife to come to his bed and she declines, the angels will keep cursing her until the morning.) Muslim recorded it with the wording,


(If the wife goes to sleep while ignoring her husband's bed, the angels will keep cursing her until the morning.) This is why Allah said,



(As to those women on whose part you see ill conduct, admonish them (first)). Allah's statement,


(abandon them in their beds,) `Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said "The abandonment refers to not having intercourse with her, to lie on her bed with his back to her.'' Several others said similarly. As-Suddi, Ad-Dahhak, `Ikrimah, and Ibn `Abbas, in another narration, added, "Not to speak with her or talk to her.'' The Sunan and Musnad compilers recorded that Mu`awiyah bin Haydah Al-Qushayri said, "O Allah's Messenger! What is the right that the wife of one of us has on him'' The Prophet said,


(To feed her when you eat, cloth her when you buy clothes for yourself, refrain from striking her face or cursing her, and to not abandon her, except in the house.) Allah's statement,


(beat them) means, if advice and ignoring her in the bed do not produce the desired results, you are allowed to discipline the wife, without severe beating. Muslim recorded that Jabir said that during the Farewell Hajj, the Prophet said;


(Fear Allah regarding women, for they are your assistants. You have the right on them that they do not allow any person whom you dislike to step on your mat. However, if they do that, you are allowed to discipline them lightly. They have a right on you that you provide them with their provision and clothes, in a reasonable manner.) Ibn `Abbas and several others said that the Ayah refers to a beating that is not violent. Al-Hasan Al-Basri said that it means, a beating that is not severe.

When the Wife Obeys Her Husband, Means of Annoyance Against Her are Prohibited

Allah said,

(but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance),) meaning, when the wife obeys her husband in all that Allah has allowed, then no means of annoyance from the husband are allowed against his wife. Therefore, in this case, the husband does not have the right to beat her or shun her bed. Allah's statement,


(Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.) reminds men that if they transgress against their wives without justification, then Allah, the Ever Most High, Most Great, is their Protector, and He will exert revenge on those who transgress against their wives and deal with them unjustly.


(35. If you fear a breach between the two, appoint (two) arbitrators, one from his family and the other from her's; if they both wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation. Indeed Allah is Ever All-Knower, Well-Acquainted with all things.)

Who defines when a beating crosses over into "severe"?

This was probably already pointed out, but I have to say something.

THE AMERICAN CONSTITUTION IS NOT BASED ON THE BIBLE.