Are there any PRAYERS for agnostics....?

Chumly wrote:

If there is a god, and if he is all-powerful, he already knows what you are going to do.

So don't sweat it, it won't make any difference if you pray or you don't pray, as god already knows what you are going to do.

True, but you still need to ask for what you want. You need to humble yourself before Him and actually make an effort.

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Raul-7 wrote:

Chumly wrote:
If there is a god, and if he is all-powerful, he already knows what you are going to do.

So don't sweat it, it won't make any difference if you pray or you don't pray, as god already knows what you are going to do.

True, but you still need to ask for what you want. You need to humble yourself before Him and actually make an effort.

If you intend on asking for what you want, god will already know that you will be asking for what you want, so there is no need to ask for what you want, but if you don't ask for what you want god will know that you won't be asking for what you want, so then you will have to ask for what you want, but then god will know you will be asking for what you want.....

If you intend to humble yourself before him, god will already know that you will be humbling yourself before him, so there is no need to humble yourself before him, but then if you don't humble yourself before him....

If you intend to actually make an effort, god will already know that you will be actually making an effort, so there is no need to actually make an effort, but if you do not actually make an effort, god.....

Thus it does not matter what you do, god already knows exactly what you are going to do, no matter how many times you change your mind, no matter what changes take place.

You Raul-7 are a puppet with no free will in a world in which everything is already known by god, and thus everything is already predicted by god. You have no control over your life.

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I love it Chumly....
The scenario being.... "I don't believe there is a god.".... so now God knows I don't believe "It" is there... but hang on I got sooo many unsolvable problems, I think I will believe there is a God ( immediately he drops to his knees and prays to his new found God ) and low and behold there is a God... but hang on... God already knows he is only asking for a free ride, and as God knew this... he immediately strikes him down dead.. then "It" scratches his head and say to himself " why the frigging hell am I wasting my time here, I knew he was going to say all this last week... should of got rid of him then.
But then again perhaps Raul can explain to us what God would of done... but be careful Raul.. cause he knows what you are going to say most likly knew 6 thousand years ago, or last week.

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Someone who is unsure about God asked simply if there was any place for prayer in his life.

Some say yes, some say no. Some say it doesn't matter. I wish those opinions could be expressed without downing those of others.

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Snood- I think that you have brought up an interesting point. I think that this world is wallowing in moral agnosticism, and political correctness. On numerous occasions, I have said that I may not respect a person's views, but I respect the person's RIGHT to hold these views, as long as they don't impinge upon mine.

Personally, I think that prayer is a "crock", solves nothing, and causes the person to pray to look to something outside of himself for answers, instead of tackling a problem head on and dealing with it.

I have also said that for some people it CAN be a comfort, and it is certainly better than falling into some psychological hole, with no way to climb out of it.

In other words, if a person cannot find the strength for his life within himself, I would suppose that prayer is better than nothing. It may even help people during a period of intense crisis, but no more so than a Valium, or even a stiff drink might tide a person over a difficult period of life. In the short run, that might be ok. I don't think that it is a satisfactory method of coping though, in the long term.

Valium, booze and prayer offer the silent message that a person is incapable of dealing with his life on his own terms, and needs something outside of himself to cope.

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snood wrote:

... I wish those opinions could be expressed without downing those of others.

tycoon wrote:

...Anyone facing real problems can't afford to close one's eyes...

snood wrote:

I think that's a little ridiculous...

??

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Point made, tycoon - and you're right.

I'll simply restate that I think prayer isn't bad for anyone.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

Snood- I think that you have brought up an interesting point. I think that this world is wallowing in moral agnosticism, and political correctness. On numerous occasions, I have said that I may not respect a person's views, but I respect the person's RIGHT to hold these views, as long as they don't impinge upon mine.

Personally, I think that prayer is a "crock", solves nothing, and causes the person to pray to look to something outside of himself for answers, instead of tackling a problem head on and dealing with it.

I have also said that for some people it CAN be a comfort, and it is certainly better than falling into some psychological hole, with no way to climb out of it.

In other words, if a person cannot find the strength for his life within himself, I would suppose that prayer is better than nothing. It may even help people during a period of intense crisis, but no more so than a Valium, or even a stiff drink might tide a person over a difficult period of life. In the short run, that might be ok. I don't think that it is a satisfactory method of coping though, in the long term.

Valium, booze and prayer offer the silent message that a person is incapable of dealing with his life on his own terms, and needs something outside of himself to cope.

So, your answer to the question is no. I get that.

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Snood wrote:

So, your answer to the question is no. I get that.

Yup. I think that you've got it!

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

Snood wrote:
So, your answer to the question is no. I get that.

Yup. I think that you've got it!

And mine is yes.

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snood wrote:

Phoenix32890 wrote:
Snood wrote:
So, your answer to the question is no. I get that.

Yup. I think that you've got it!

And mine is yes.

Now how did I know that! :wink:

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I worship no God (but have on many occasions been accused of considering myself one). I do not believe anyone, whether in meditation or prayer, is communicating with anyone but their own subconscious. To that extent, I consider the belief in a higher being or lack thereof largely irrelevant, as the answers they seek will come from the same place (personally; I prefer the plan your work and work your plan solution, but that's me). Though I do neither, I can fault neither approach if it helps a person find peace or comfort. I envy those who believe there's a reason for everything, eternal life, and/or whatever supernatural benefits they receive from their beliefs and see neither harm, nor a reason to try and take them away (until they become harmful). The author of this thread is obviously having a tough time and could probably benefit from comfort wherever he can find it. Those who can't resist the opportunity to ridicule rather than comfort, are taking the low road, IMO and moreover don't sound very nice.

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Some really good responses in this thread.

Phoenix, Snood, and Bill all hit lots of nails on the head.

Not sure if I've ever mentioned this...but I am an agnostic myself.

I sometimes find myself wishing for things.

I wish, for instance, that George Bush and his cronies would come out of what I perceive to be denial...and enter into reality.

I wish that Nancy could find a decent second job so I could get rid of those two days I have to toil as a starter at the golf course.

I wish that summer were here so I could spend more pleasant time at the shore, in Central Park and on the Frying Pan.

I wish humans would stop slaughtering other humans. I wish we all would take better care of the place we've got temporary custody of.

I guess wishing is a form of "prayer."

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Or prayer is a form of wishing!

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Frank Apisa wrote:

Or prayer is a form of wishing!

Frank- You're an agnostic? I never knew that! :wink:

Although I am not completely successful, I attempt to banish the words, "wish" and "hope" from my vocabulary. To me those are words for small children, poor impotent little beings who have not yet matured to the point where they have control over much of anything in their lives. The techniques that they use are usually geared to manipulate adults to provide what they want.

As we mature, there is less of a need to wish, and more of an ability to act. That is not to say that we always accomplish and get what we want. The difference though, between adults and children, is that adults have the
experience and cerebral wherewithal to face a problem, evaluate it, and develop plans for overcoming it.

Of course, the efficiency of the ability to act varies from person to person, based on intelligence, individual abilities, motivation, and to some extent, upbringing. Children who are taught by their parents that they are competent people, fully capable of dealing with whatever life throws at us, do have an easier time of it. Bottom line though, each individual has the opportunity of charting his own course in life.

It is those people who have not developed a strong sense of their own personhood, who, IMO, will fall upon "wishing and hoping" as a means of dealing with the difficulties of life.

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Y'know, there are some of us who pray because we just kinda like doing it. Not necessarily with the expectation of a reward or a fulfillment.

Like I said earlier, it's a mind-body thing. For folks who have been ill with, say, cancer, attitude plays a part. Is there a harm in doing something to foster a positive attitude? For some that's prayer. For others, that's playing skee ball. And so it goes.

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jespah wrote:

Y'know, there are some of us who pray because we just kinda like doing it. Not necessarily with the expectation of a reward or a fulfillment.

Like I said earlier, it's a mind-body thing. For folks who have been ill with, say, cancer, attitude plays a part. Is there a harm in doing something to foster a positive attitude? For some that's prayer. For others, that's playing skee ball. And so it goes.

Agreed.

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As an athiest I can tell you I still have wishes. But, like Phoenix, I try not to. It feels hypocritical. I force myself not to say bless you, which is such routine in america. I do thank people when they bless me, and would happily explain if someone asked why I didn't bless them or someone else.

I do still say things like "please, please, please...." when I am late and may miss a bus/train/flight/meeting/etc. I do rumble "come on...." when I wish a light doesn't turn red before I get through it. But, I am not 'sending' these wishes anywhere - to anyone.

You know when our members here have troubles - Husker and his infection, cats in Australia, etc - people say they will send prayers. I say I will send thoughts. I envision a route between me and the ailing one. I picture him/her/it and I wish them well - is this prayer? It's definitely some sort of meditation. Are they the same? It's sort of like cutting out the middle man.

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jespah wrote:

Y'know, there are some of us who pray because we just kinda like doing it. Not necessarily with the expectation of a reward or a fulfillment.

Like I said earlier, it's a mind-body thing. For folks who have been ill with, say, cancer, attitude plays a part. Is there a harm in doing something to foster a positive attitude? For some that's prayer. For others, that's playing skee ball. And so it goes.

No Jes, I don't think that there is any harm in doing whatever it takes to foster a positive attitude. I just tend to look askance at those folks who rely on prayer as their characteristic way of dealing with life.

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littlek- I think that you and I are on the same "wavelength".

Quote:

It's sort of like cutting out the middle man.

Exactly. When I am sending out thoughts (or "vibes", although that expression is a bit too "new agey" for my tastes) to people, I am the one who is taking the action. If a person sends a prayer, they are not sending anything of themselves to another, but merely beseeching someone or something else (usually a god) to intervene.

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Are there any PRAYERS for agnostics....?

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