Is accountability [part of] the problem?

Chai wrote:

Back to testing....I don't know the situation with how often kids are tested today. What is the schedule?

I can't speak for every state or school district, but where I teach we spend 6 weeks out of the year ( 3 in Oct., 1 in Feb. and 2 in May) testing students. We use two different tests, one a mandatory state test, the other is one that our district chose that is designed by a test company to align with our state standards. In the world of education now there is so much pressure on teachers, schools, school districts and states to prove Annual Yearly Progress (AYP) that, in my opinion, we are spending too much time on being accountable for AYP and not enough time focusing on children's needs. A month and a half of testing during a 10 month school year is a lot of testing.

I agree with Aiden that testing for diagnostic purposes is helpful. When a child enters the special education system they are given a battery of tests to determine ability, disability, learning style, and in general to guide teaching for that child. If achievement testing with the general population was used in a similar way, to assess early in the year children's academic needs to allow teachers to plan accordingly, then again at the end of the year to note progress, that would be useful information. I know we are all wading through the AYP demands of NCLB, but from what I have seen there is too much presenting test results in pretty packages and organized graphs, and too much patting on the backs of those who made it and pointing fingers at those who haven't.

Aiden, I am very interested in learning more about the Toe To Toe program that you mentioned. It's not one that I have heard of, but I'm always up to investigate new programs. I have looked it up and have seen many positive reviews. I'm curious, does the program have a phonemic awareness component to it? I teach 5-10 year olds and thats a huge piece to beginning reading. I am currently using the S.P.I.R.E Program with my neediest readers. It is similar to Orton-Gillingham, and Wilson, but developed with younger children in mind. It has an excellent phonemic awareness piece call Sounds Sensible. I have used a lot of different programs in my many years of teaching, but I like this one best so far as a complete package.

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Stormwatch- Yes, it stresses phonemic awareness. That's pretty much what it's all about- thus the use of letter combinations to introduce sounds. As you progress through the program, they also introduce text- but there are no pictures or other context clues- they want the learner to use decoding skills to work out the word and there's so much practice (some teachers would probably object to the structure and rote aspect of it) because that is what they've found is necessary in order for these specific learners who have weak image recall to imprint words onto their long-term memory "word" bank.
Good luck introducing it in a US school system though. Maybe I'm cynical, but my guess is that these people don't have the professional degrees or clout to be adopted by a school system (I'm sure you know how letters behind a person's name mean more than whether that person has a clue about viable methods or not). The manual is really cheap though. If I were teaching there, I'd buy one- reproduce my own materials (which these authors have no problem with- they just want people to learn to read) and not say anything to anyone else about it. I've always found that if you really believe in something, but know that it won't go over, it's better not to ask because if you don't ask- you won't be told "No, you can't do that."

Chai, most of us learn to read by beginning with phonics, but then our memory takes over and we are able to memorize phonetic rules to apply, but also certain words that don't comply phonetically (words like thought, because, enough, laugh). People who have a reading disability often have issues with short and long term memory. Every time they see these words, it's like they're seeing them for the first time again.
I think it probably seems more prevalent now because children are not encouraged to develop the skills that would be beneficial in learning reading- or anything else for that matter-namely, the ability to attend to one thing for longer than two or three minutes at a time. Our whole culture has shifted its focus (to an inability or lack of desire to focus on anything) and I think we're seeing the result.
I swear, I can always tell the difference between people who have been raised playing video games and those who haven't- just by the way they either do or don't look at you when you're speaking. The ones who have played extensively, you can actually see their eyes and attention constantly shifting. And you can actually see them making the mental effort to constantly refocus their attention to the task at hand.

Timber- I specified music because musical study contributes directly to mathematical awareness and ability. I think all the arts are important though- as a stress reliever especially and a means of expression for those who find that meaningful and relaxing and inspiring- but I think music instruction would also correlate positively to the enhancement of success in certain basic skills.

But I don't agree with this:the aphorism has it,

Quote:

"If the student hasn't learned, the teacher hasn't taught". Its as simple as that.

at all. I think, as I said it's most often an unfortunate combination of things.

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In the aphorism, "teacher" needs to be understood to apply to the entire teaching system - from parent through instructor/teacher on up through the entire infrastructure of the institution of education - administrators and legislators included.

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Gotcha. Kids are pretty much dependent on us, aren't they? And if they can't trust us to make the right decisions for them when we won't allow them to make decisions for themselves- why should they invest in what they can't comprehend or understand?

I don't think anyone starts out saying, "I don't want to learn". I think it's just a matter of getting worn down to the point that they finally just switch off.

Luckily, I think a lot of people switch back on at some point-when they realize that maybe it wasn't that they were stupid or dumb and they can learn by different methods. So even if someone doesn't make it at the typical age through a traditional school- there's always hope.

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good into aidan, I'll read your post again when I'm more fully awake.

I do agree on the focusing thing, more and more, I see people who just can't, or have a hard time doing it.

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timberlandko wrote:

Bullshit. Your employment of classical Aristotelian Ignorentio Elenchi was demonstrated clearly, and you were challenged to demonstrate otherwise. That you fail to do. That you do not assay to address, rebut and refute the charges laid to your post, but rather you dismiss and avoid those detailed and specific charges amounts to tacit concession of the point at dispute (that point being your forensic practice and, by extension, crediblitlity)

Wait while I get my magnifying glass! Perhaps with sufficient scrutiny, I'll find something that anyone can respond to. I certainly would not avoid answering you. But, you have to say something.

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fishin -- Your usual anger. When are you going to address it? BTW, I never wanted to teach, but, I was trained in Michigan where the standards are higher and I approached it as a left winger does, assuming personal responsibility and educating myself in the subject matter, not in worthless education courses. If the latter part of the sentence is what you refer to as my bragging about my qualifications, then that's it. I think seeing things through your veil of anger makes them appear other than they are.

Someone in the education classes are what we need mode would see things differently.

I am currently teaching special education and all of the sped teachers act as aides for one CPII class per rotation. That's because the kids are so off the wall.

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osso -- There was a misguided philosophy awhile back which eliminated all rote learning, mostly, I suspect, to carry folks away from the idea of the one room schoolhouse and of teachers smacking kids across their open palms with rulers. When my kids were in school, they were told to memorize their "math facts," which meant times tables.

I know mine because a rabid nun was angry with our class and made us write the complete multiplication table ten times over during Christmas vacation. I had the attic upstairs bedroom then and did mine at night, under the covers, with a penlight, so that my parents wouldn't know because they would never accept that the entire class had the penance. Public schools called penances "tasks."

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Chai wrote:

okay, so cutting to the case, in answer to my question "WWPOM do?" You would give students the SATs and a version of the test where you spend the day filling in the bubbles with a #2 pencil.

Caveat, those who do not intend (for whatever reason) not to attend college (at least at this time) shouldn't even be required to take tests like SATs since they are "dummies" and "sweat hogs" and won't learn anything anyway, so why measure their progress? In addition, since all of those not attending college are epsilon minuses, they won't be contributing anything worthwhile to society anyway. It is of course a well established fact that every person who "only" graduated high scholl is a drooling idiot.

Why exactly did you enter the teaching profession plainoldme?

You obviously loathe your students, their parents, and the entire education system.

Since this is how you obviously feel about your charges, do you think they are not picking up on your attitude toward them?

Actually, I have never read anything written by you that indicates believe you are accountable for anything that goes on in the world. It's always someone else's fault. So, it's no surprise that you cannot even see that your attitude that the students are lazy, stupid and worthless obviously must effect their learning from you.

I can't believe some parent hasn't reported you for your lack of compassion and obvious distaste for having to lower yourself to deal with their kids.

I'd like to hear some answers for possible solutions from some teachers who don't hate their students for one, and can actually relate some strategies that have some sort of concrete plan involved.

Aidan?
littlek?
Others?

Oh, so, after writing this gobbledy-gook, you have the nerve to say you have a concrete plan and I don't? Interesting.

I have a concrete plan. In fact, I wrote to the new governor of Massachusetts today, outlining my plan. I feel that kids who do not read at grade level at the end of ninth grade should not go on to high school but to something akin to the widely popular "K1," or second year of kindergarten. These students would be tutored in reading with the Orton-Gillingham method or something akin to it. They would take physical education and participate in sports. They would engage in physical work -- whether it was farm work or tailoring or auto repair -- that produced a product. At the end of the year, if their reading comprehension level was at least 8th-9th grade, then they could tackle academic work. They would then go through four years of the standard high school curriculum. If they weren't on par in reading comprehension, they would take a SPED high school curriculum.

Now, I only hate sluts (yeah, just like I hate women with breast implants) and I hate kids who tell me that they hate to read because their mothers hate to read.

I took the Massachestts teachers test after meeting an idiot who was downsized out of a tech job but who had an undergraduate degree in English who thought she would teach because she knew sooooooo muccccchhhhh about literary style and writing. She was sooooo wooorrrried because the Massachusetts test was sooo hard. Baloney! She asked me -- we were volunteers at a music club -- who my favorite female songwriter was. I said that I never think of songwriters in terms of their gender and she replied that I was old fashioned. I raised my eyebrows at her, so she said that she knows better because she has a bachelor's degree in English. I then replied, "Oh, I can't beat that! I only have a master's degree in English!"

Besides, I truly love some of the kids and really go to bat for them. But, you are Chai and you are an intellectual cousin of the woman described above.

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Aidan -- This is in response to your second post, which I did not read before dealing with the irrationality here. The funny thing is that I have tried to begin threads that asked for people's theories.

Let's tackle a topic or two, beginning with social promotion. My Dad was born in 1923 and did not attend kindergarten although most kids in the midwest did by then. He started first grade in 1929 and left school in the middle of the 8th grade to support his divorced mother who was experiencing the beginnings of paralysis due to multiple sclerosis. He often mentioned the boys who were kept back year and year and who turned 12, 13, even 16 and were still in the third grade. They never learned anything and simply stayed until it was legal for them to leave. Social promotion is better than that.

I am currently rewriting several articles in Discover's January edition dealing with the top 100 science stories for 2006. My kids subscribed to Discover beginning at 10. I took the responsibility to teach them a great many things, following their interests. My older son was in love with science by the time he was 18 months old. Frankly, I thought all fifth graders could read Discover. Well, it upsets me that these kids can not read it as ninth graders and I blame the parents more than I blame the school system, in large part, because I subbed in this system (ranked by Boston Magazine as 29 out of the 151 high schools in the greater Boston area, for what that is worth).

I was told to present the standard ninth grade English curriculum to these kids in order that they pass out of SPED. Frankly, all of the SPED teachers at the high school think it was a mistake for one of my students (a boy who almost died when he was in the 6th grade) to be in special needs. Well, even if they are dyslexic or disgraphic, it is a mistake to put any kid whose IQ is 95-105 in SPED. I'm not certain it is a good idea to tell a kid he's dyslexic.

Will have to reread your post some other time: library closes in five mins.

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Aidan -- Ah, yes, music. I believe in that part of the Waldorf system although I don't agree with the Waldorf reading philosophy. Now, the right thinks we should not have music and art but I think one of the reasons why my daughter is exceptional in languages is her musical ability. None of my kids are particularly talented in art. My daughter is a good weaver and fair sculptor. My older son enjoys painting but refused music lessons. The youngest was in the honors art program in middle school but his teacher said he is an "artist of the heart and not an artist of material." In other

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One of the problems people labor under today is that it is important to be liked. Shades of Death of a Salesman! I think more harm is done by teachers -- and there are a few -- who elaborately posture and present a false 'love' for all their students.

There is a young woman at our high school who goes overboard with this. She continually talks about how one student in particular is a "leader." No, this girl is not a leader. She's angry and while she has a reason why she is angry (her mother is dead and her father is remarried), no one else needs to suffer because of her anger. She's also petty. She struck up a conversation with a stranger on a bus, but the stranger knew her by reputation. When this girl asked the stranger how she had heard of her, the stranger named two other girls, unknown to my subject. She doesn't realize that she's notorious. A few weeks after this conversation, she said that she is the most popular kid in school.

I respect those teachers who can say that they can't stand a kid. While I don't completely agree with tough love, there are far too many kids who are handled with kid gloves and have no choice to but to become monsters. I think that this girl will eventually come to terms with her mother's death. She is better this year than she was last year. Frankly, there are several people at the school -- both teachers and staff -- who are working to get her out of there.

I think the kid who screams at teachers -- so obviously the way she treats her mother who then backs down -- is too far gone to be 'saved,' that she will be a monster the rest of her life.

Now, Chai, why should you, someone who freely expresses your various hatreds and irritants here, expect something more from teachers? I feel like asking you, "Are they not human? If you prick them, do they not bleed?"

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plainoldme wrote:

timberlandko wrote:

Bullshit. Your employment of classical Aristotelian Ignorentio Elenchi was demonstrated clearly, and you were challenged to demonstrate otherwise. That you fail to do. That you do not assay to address, rebut and refute the charges laid to your post, but rather you dismiss and avoid those detailed and specific charges amounts to tacit concession of the point at dispute (that point being your forensic practice and, by extension, crediblitlity)

Wait while I get my magnifying glass! Perhaps with sufficient scrutiny, I'll find something that anyone can respond to. I certainly would not avoid answering you. But, you have to say something.

Let me make this easy for you - I'll type real slow and real loud. You presented a number of assertions to which I took exception, which exceptions I made effort to break down individually via quoting particular specifics of your assertions precisely in your own words, and I presented in detail my objections to your assertions each in turn. Rather than respond in substantive rebuttal, rather than engage and discuss the issues I raised, rather than demonstrate error on my part, you dismissively alleged I was using the terms "straw man" and "red herring" incorrectly. I responded to that with a challenge to you that you support that particular allegation. You did not do so, but again rather than engage and address the issue raised, you again dismissively evaded the challenge set before you. For that, I again took you to task, again in specific particular, your insubstantive, evasive response to which brings us to this point, as detailed in that post of yours as quoted at the beginining of this post. I submit once more that your practice pertaining to this issue amounts to tacit concession on your part that the charges I laid against your assertions stand validated. You have done nothing to vindicate your assertions, you merely have persisted in and built upon the fallacious practices with which you were charged.

Amusingly, you then offer this silly, unsupportable, broad-brush falsehood:

[url=http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2510431#2510431]POM[/url] wrote:

... Now, the right thinks we should not have music and art ...

An assertion which stands out in that in one post you assert that mine is the POV of the "Right", whereas in direct contradiction of your assertion that "... the right thinks we should not have music and art ... ", I explicity stated otherwise; either I am not of that persuasion colloquially known as "The Right", contrary to that which you have alleged, or your contention that " ... right thinks we should not have music and art ... " is incorrect - no matter; either way, you're by your own words yet again demonstrated to be "Wrong".

At least in terms of glaring errors of classical Aristotelean logic and rhetoric exacerbated by statements consisting of outright falsehood, you're being consistent. Great job ... keep it up; the entertainment value afforded through the blatherings you so typically post to discussions such as this amounts to pure treasure.

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timber -- Reading the last paragraph of your rather typical Captain Huff'n'Stuff post sounds demonstrates that you look in the mirror as you type? To accuse me of falsehoods is ridiculous. That's probably another concept that you just don't understand.

As a conservative who supports the teaching of the arts in schools, you are distinctly in the very smallest of minorities, as reading any thread dealing with education on this forum shows again and again and again.

However, you oppose allowing teachers to teach works of literature that they want to teach. You fail to see how disasterous it would be if every child in the 10th grade reads the same 6 books year in, year out. I wish the teaching of literature were handled the way it was during my own high school years, with a clearly defined curriculum and with a demand for 6 books read during the summer and one book each month during the academic year in addition to those studied by the group. However, consider that some college English majors are drawn to a certain period -- 19th C American lit or a particular author or even what might be a group of writers, like 20th C American Jewish writers. It is so much better that teachers have the freedom to teach what they know best and what they love.

You did not present a cogent argument against this. You simply said that allowing each teacher (which isn't done) to teach exactly what s/he wishes has gotten us into the situation we are in without defining that situation. That is not an argument, that is saying black to my several shades of white, which was supported by a substantial objection to a national curriculum.

You have no idea how a national curriculum should be structured. Its nothing more than a catch phrase.

When you have something substantial -- and reasoned -- to say, then I will respond to it. Until then, I will say that you have no idea what you are talking about and it shows.

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plainoldme wrote:

Chai wrote:

okay, so cutting to the case, in answer to my question "WWPOM do?" You would give students the SATs and a version of the test where you spend the day filling in the bubbles with a #2 pencil.

Caveat, those who do not intend (for whatever reason) not to attend college (at least at this time) shouldn't even be required to take tests like SATs since they are "dummies" and "sweat hogs" and won't learn anything anyway, so why measure their progress? In addition, since all of those not attending college are epsilon minuses, they won't be contributing anything worthwhile to society anyway. It is of course a well established fact that every person who "only" graduated high scholl is a drooling idiot.

Why exactly did you enter the teaching profession plainoldme?

You obviously loathe your students, their parents, and the entire education system.

Since this is how you obviously feel about your charges, do you think they are not picking up on your attitude toward them?

Actually, I have never read anything written by you that indicates believe you are accountable for anything that goes on in the world. It's always someone else's fault. So, it's no surprise that you cannot even see that your attitude that the students are lazy, stupid and worthless obviously must effect their learning from you.

I can't believe some parent hasn't reported you for your lack of compassion and obvious distaste for having to lower yourself to deal with their kids.

I'd like to hear some answers for possible solutions from some teachers who don't hate their students for one, and can actually relate some strategies that have some sort of concrete plan involved.

Aidan?
littlek?
Others?

Oh, so, after writing this gobbledy-gook, you have the nerve to say you have a concrete plan and I don't? Interesting.

I have a concrete plan. In fact, I wrote to the new governor of Massachusetts today, outlining my plan. I feel that kids who do not read at grade level at the end of ninth grade should not go on to high school but to something akin to the widely popular "K1," or second year of kindergarten. These students would be tutored in reading with the Orton-Gillingham method or something akin to it. They would take physical education and participate in sports. They would engage in physical work -- whether it was farm work or tailoring or auto repair -- that produced a product. At the end of the year, if their reading comprehension level was at least 8th-9th grade, then they could tackle academic work. They would then go through four years of the standard high school curriculum. If they weren't on par in reading comprehension, they would take a SPED high school curriculum.

Now, I only hate sluts (yeah, just like I hate women with breast implants) and I hate kids who tell me that they hate to read because their mothers hate to read.

I took the Massachestts teachers test after meeting an idiot who was downsized out of a tech job but who had an undergraduate degree in English who thought she would teach because she knew sooooooo muccccchhhhh about literary style and writing. She was sooooo wooorrrried because the Massachusetts test was sooo hard. Baloney! She asked me -- we were volunteers at a music club -- who my favorite female songwriter was. I said that I never think of songwriters in terms of their gender and she replied that I was old fashioned. I raised my eyebrows at her, so she said that she knows better because she has a bachelor's degree in English. I then replied, "Oh, I can't beat that! I only have a master's degree in English!"

Besides, I truly love some of the kids and really go to bat for them. But, you are Chai and you are an intellectual cousin of the woman described above.

Why do you have to be so defensive all the time? It really gets in the way of communcation. Can't you just carry on a conversation without all the insults?

#1, I never stated I had a concrete plan. Where did you pick that up? I'm not a teacher. I was asking the question what teachers here would do. In your first post regarding that question, you answered with the fill in the bubble response, and I was trying to let you know that didn't answer the question.

#2, POM, it's not your place to hate or not hate your students. That's a personal thing, and must be put aside for the sake of the children. All that does in alienate the very ones who need the most help. Good heavens, I'm a grown woman and I can barely see past your constant cutting remarks at times, how is a youngster supposed to respond to your demeanor? You, for whatever reason, chose this profession and you owe it to them to treat them all with dignity and respect. Hate is a strong word.

I don't know why you say I speak gobbledy gook, it appears you think that you can cover up your own insecurities by lashing out at others, and I'm really tired of it. Now, could you please just carry on a discussion with me that doesn't involve name calling and references to things that I don't even know where they came from?

I don't know where the subject of sluts and breast implants and some woman with a degree in English came from, and I don't care.

So let's end this stupid back and forth and act like adults. Okay?

Question: What is the Orton-Gillingham method?

Also, it still seems you're saying that someone, based on a low reading level, should be directed toward jobs that don't offer advancement.
what would you do with a student who cannot read well but has high math skills? Are skills? Forgien language? Etc.

Honestly pom, if you want to come back here and continue your usual same old same old with me, please don't bother. I can't help how you talk to others, but I'm holding out the olive branch here, and I don't want to argue with you or anyone.

So either communicate with me with some respect, or just don't bother.

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Chai wrote:

Why do you have to be so defensive all the time? It really gets in the way of communcation. Can't you just carry on a conversation without all the insults?

What a hypocrite. You follow me like a ramora -- I've accused you of this several times -- you comment critically on everything I say and then you have the unmitigated gall to accuse me of being defensive?! Carry on a conversation without insults?! That is something you have demonstrated time and time again that you can not do.

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In response to Chai's statement about concrete plans -- woman! you just can not follow a thread!!!! -- here is what she wrote, a plea to hear the concrete plans of others, from her own needlessly recopied post.

I'd like to hear some answers for possible solutions from some teachers who don't hate their students for one, and can actually relate some strategies that have some sort of concrete plan involved.

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Chai wrote:

#2, POM, it's not your place to hate or not hate your students. That's a personal thing, and must be put aside for the sake of the children. All that does in alienate the very ones who need the most help. Good heavens, I'm a grown woman and I can barely see past your constant cutting remarks at times, how is a youngster supposed to respond to your demeanor? You, for whatever reason, chose this profession and you owe it to them to treat them all with dignity and respect. Hate is a strong word.

I don't know why you say I speak gobbledy gook, it appears you think that you can cover up your own insecurities by lashing out at others, and I'm really tired of it. Now, could you please just carry on a discussion with me that doesn't involve name calling and references to things that I don't even know where they came from?

I don't know where the subject of sluts and breast implants and some woman with a degree in English came from, and I don't care.

So let's end this stupid back and forth and act like adults. Okay?

Question: What is the Orton-Gillingham method?

Also, it still seems you're saying that someone, based on a low reading level, should be directed toward jobs that don't offer advancement.
what would you do with a student who cannot read well but has high math skills? Are skills? Forgien language? Etc.

Honestly pom, if you want to come back here and continue your usual same old same old with me, please don't bother. I can't help how you talk to others, but I'm holding out the olive branch here, and I don't want to argue with you or anyone.

So either communicate with me with some respect, or just don't bother.

I hate reposting comments to this degree. What a way to not communicate.

Let's talk about loving one's students. Why present hypocrisy? That hurts kids more than honesty. These are not toddlers but young adults.

Chai, your comments are particularly -- what 'cutting' word should I use? inane? inappropriate? off-base? unfounded? -- because you constantly follow me with your criticism that, frankly, must stem from an inability to follow a topic, as I just demonstrated in the post previous to this one.

As for my demeanor, one of the reasons why people come here is to communicate ideas that should help to make the world a better place. Frankly, if the right disappeared today, the world would be a better place.

My insecurities? Do you think someone like you makes me feel insecure? Wow! You're even more conceited than I thought you were and I assumed a pretty high measure of conceit.

Do you realize that people who can not read well can not do many other things well? Sure, math does not necessarily depend upon reading at certain levels, but, no one can build a career in math without reading at least on the high school level.

Furthermore, rethink your question about foreign languages. Those kids who can not read well can not learn foreign languages. Consider this: a child from a family of non-English speakers (it doesn't matter what language is used at home) who is schooled in English but who doesn't learn to read well -- particularly if she like the girl who says she won't read because her mother hates books -- will not learn to read the Spanish her parents speak. It just doesn't happen.

You challenge me to leave a thread that I started because you don't like the way I talk to you when I have repeatedly asked you to stop attacking me. Either you are in the clouds or you suffer from poor short term memory or you don't realize how 'cutting' and insulting you are or you enjoy manipulating.

Communicate with you with some respect? My gawd! You demonstrate to me that you can't read, you follow me around, you come to insult me and accuse me of all manner of things, including a demeanor that you have never witnessed and you want respect?

Now, about Orton-Gillingham -- and I know I have written this on the forum, if not on this thread -- it is a phonics based system of teaching reading.

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So, In other words, you do not accept my olive branch, and prefer to do nothing but insult and hate the world.
Ok, sorry you feel that way. Finis.

Moving on....Aidans reply was interesting, I know littlek is a teacher, what are your feelings?

Stormwatch?

Not to switch gears, but how do you all feel about home schooling?

I never really understood how it could work unless the parent(s) themselves were trained teachers. #1, I always thought it would be very isolating to the child. I've heard parents say their childen play/socialize with kids after school, or with other home schooled kids, but I just don't know. If a home school kid wanted to play with the gang that had just spent all day together, and had a lot of common ground, he'd be missing out on a lot of the inside stuff, and the other kids may not really want to share it all. Or, if they play with other home schooled kids, well, there aren't all that many of them, and again, it just seems off.

As far as the curriculum, it's hard for me to imagine being at home all day and getting the same level.

Any thoughts?

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Chai wrote:

So, In other words, you do not accept my olive branch, and prefer to do nothing but insult and hate the world.
Ok, sorry you feel that way. Finis.

Olive branch? Seems you can dish it out but you can't take it. You've been treating me terribly for months on end. I guess the truth hurts you.

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Is accountability [part of] the problem?

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