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WHY did God create that that is?

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Ethmer
 
Reply Thu 4 Jan, 2007 11:28 pm
Assuming that you believe in a God that created everything, whether specifically or through evolution, my question is WHY did God create that that is?

Why so many stars?

Why animals and other creatures?

Why man?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,457 • Replies: 23
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Pte Darkness
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Jan, 2007 11:38 pm
Indirectly asking "what is the meaning of life"?

Perhaps God, if he so exists, is just a kid with an antfarm or an experiment with no reason but his own curiosity or amusement.
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Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 12:54 am
Ethmer, an earth-centric universe with a man-centric god makes absolutley no sense to me.

A godless universe, however, seems to make perfect sense.
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Raul-7
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 02:50 am
As a sign for mankind.

In the heavens and the earth there are certainly signs for the believers. And in your creation and all the creatures He has scattered about there are signs for people with certainty. (Surat al-Jathiyah: 3-4)

Now, Erol - how probable is it that this perfectly habitable Earth came about by mere chance?
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 03:28 am
If "mere chance" were operative, likelihood would be small. However, no matter how small the likelihood (the likelihood of surviving a lightning strike, a great fall, or a shark attack is very small - but now and again, someone manages to do it), if it could happen it might happen, and here we are.


If - as appears more and more likely to be the case with every new discovery - physics and chemistry lead to the formation of life-sprouting planets, its a done deal - here we are.
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 07:20 am
I believe that the term god is of some use.
I believe that an appropriate word to use on this idea is IT, and not HE.
I believe that god has no mind beyond the causality of nature.

I believe that if we could understand all the connections and all the variables of the entire existence, we wouldn't see random anywhere, and we'd be seeing god.

There's no mystery. Just our ignorance.
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baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 07:24 am
timberlandko wrote:
...If - as appears more and more likely to be the case with every new discovery - physics and chemistry lead to the formation of life-sprouting planets, its a done deal - here we are.


Sounds like magic to me. :wink:
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 11:54 am
baddog1 wrote:
timberlandko wrote:
...If - as appears more and more likely to be the case with every new discovery - physics and chemistry lead to the formation of life-sprouting planets, its a done deal - here we are.


Sounds like magic to me. :wink:

Any witnessed phenomena the mechanics of which the beholder lacks the knowledge to understand will appear to that beholder to be magic. What would Aristotle have thought of a cellphone, or Bishop Ussher of GPS-guided artillery?
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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 01:08 pm
Re: WHY did God create that that is?
Ethmer wrote:
Assuming that you believe in a God that created everything, whether specifically or through evolution, my question is WHY did God create that that is?

Why so many stars?

Why animals and other creatures?

Why man?


It's a lot more interesting this way, isn't it. You could ask the question rhetorically in reverse: Do we care if any number of plants and animals, or even man himeself goes extinct?
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 01:11 pm
Re: WHY did God create that that is?
Ethmer wrote:
Assuming that you believe in a God that created everything, whether specifically or through evolution, my question is WHY did God create that that is?

Why so many stars?

Why animals and other creatures?

Why man?


It's a lot more interesting this way, isn't it. You could ask the question rhetorically in reverse: Do we care if any number of plants and animals, or even man himeself goes extinct?
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 01:12 pm
quote="Ethmer"]Assuming that you believe in a God that created everything, whether specifically or through evolution, my question is WHY did God create that that is?

Why so many stars?

Why animals and other creatures?

Why man?[/quote]

It's a lot more interesting this way, isn't it. You could ask the question rhetorically in reverse: Do we care if any number of plants and animals, or even man himeself goes extinct?
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 02:34 pm
Ethmer

Your initial questions are, come to think of it, rather absurd. Why so many this and that, you ask, and 'why not' is an equally good question.

A more interesting question, as far as I'm concerned is, "Why do I see that which is in the way that I do?"
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 04:13 pm
Re: WHY did God create that that is?
Ethmer wrote:
Assuming that you believe in a God that created everything, whether specifically or through evolution, my question is WHY did God create that that is?

Why so many stars?

Why animals and other creatures?

Why man?


The three questions above only make sense if you assume that god created things specifically.

On the other hand, if god created everything through evolution (cosmologic evolution as well as biologic evolution), then all the "why's" are derivatives of original conditions. And your first question is the only one we need to ask: Why was the Universe created as it is?

Each question(s) only make sense if we start with a particular assumption about the way things were created.

If you start with a god of specific actions, then you will uncover the dogma of whoever answers (religion).

If you start with an 'evolutionary' god, then you will uncover physics, cosmology, biology, geology, etc (science).

Which assumption would you like to start with?
0 Replies
 
Ethmer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 07:36 pm
 
"If you start with a god of specific actions, then you will uncover the dogma of whoever answers (religion).

If you start with an 'evolutionary' god, then you will uncover physics, cosmology, biology, geology, etc (science).

Which assumption would you like to start with?"


Starting with an "evolutionary" God, i'd still ask the question, WHY?
 
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 07:50 pm
How about starting with no assumption?
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mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 09:37 pm
Sam Clemens once asked why the fly.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 11:11 pm
Ethmer wrote:
Starting with an "evolutionary" God, i'd still ask the question, WHY?


"Why" create the Universe the way it is? I can only guess. Perhaps it was the most entertaining construct possible; one which starts from simplicity and evolves without intervention toward an undefined finish. A lazy deity's chia-pet so to speak.

Or perhaps all Universes arise spontaneously, and only those which accidentally give rise to thought ever bother to question themselves.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jan, 2007 11:12 pm
Cyracuz wrote:
How about starting with no assumption?


I'm not sure how to do that. Can you start us off with an example?
0 Replies
 
Raul-7
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2007 03:14 am
timberlandko wrote:
If "mere chance" were operative, likelihood would be small. However, no matter how small the likelihood (the likelihood of surviving a lightning strike, a great fall, or a shark attack is very small - but now and again, someone manages to do it), if it could happen it might happen, and here we are.


The calculations of British mathematician Roger Penrose show that the probability of universe conducive to life occurring by chance is in 10^123. The phrase "extremely unlikely" is inadequate to describe this possibility.

1^50 is usually take to mean 'zero possibility', now 10^123 is trillions less than that. Meaning coincidence is an impossibility.

Roger Penrose comments:

"This now tells how precise the Creator's aim must have been, namely to an accuracy of one part in 10^10^123. This is an extraordinary figure. One could not possibly even write the number down in full in the ordinary denary notation: it would be 1 followed by 10^123 successive 0's. Even if we were to write a 0 on each separate proton and on each separate neutron in the entire universe- and we could throw in all the other particles for good measure- we should fall far short of writing down the figure needed."

Now answer this-

"We did not create heaven and earth and everything between them to no purpose. That is the opinion of those who are disbelievers." (Surah Sad: 27)

True?
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2007 04:20 am
mesquite wrote:
Sam Clemens once asked why the fly.


Nice link. I wonder if I'm the only one who read.
0 Replies
 
 

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