Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Dec, 2006 10:29 am
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/son2.htm
0 Replies
 
Raul-7
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Dec, 2006 11:56 am


Oh, I assume being the a mortal God is similar to being the immortal God and they were one and the same? Then God allowed his mortal-self to die for the sins of mankind? Then why do you still worship the mortal God? God is indeed only One! That's the essence of monotheism!

God even denies this clearly in the Quran-

"People of the Book (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, and attribute to God nothing except the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His command that He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. . God is indeed just One God. Far be it from His glory that He should have a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth. God is sufficient for a guardian" (Quran 4:171)

How about this too-

"And the devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak; for they knew that he was Christ." (Luke 4:11)

and again "He [Jesus] said unto them [the disciples], But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The
Christ of God. And he straightly charged them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing." (Luke 9:20 and 21).
0 Replies
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jan, 2007 09:38 pm
What does the crescent moon symbol mean?

The Qur'an says, "And dispute ye not with the People of the Book [Jews and Christians and the Bible], except in the best way, unless it be with those of them who do wrong but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you," (29:46).

1. Question: Isn't the Qur'an here saying that the Muslim is to believe what the Bible says?

When Muhammed (570 - 632) was alive, he claimed to receive the revelation of the Qu'ran from Allah. This means that at that time, the Bible which was in existence, could not have been corrupted because the Qu'ran states that God's word cannot be corrupted. The question I have for the Muslims is "When and where was the Bible corrupted, since the Qu'ran says that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel are from Allah and Allah's words cannot be changed?"
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jan, 2007 10:04 pm
Seen in the light of atheism, (in which he is not the son of any gods), Jesus was a great man who brought the simple concepts of peace, love, pacifism and humanism to his part of the world, and it caught on big time. Sure, he was a bit deluded, or a bit deceptive, but basically a good guy with some great ideas.

Seen in the light of him being the perfect son of a perfect god, it just makes no sense whatsoever. How can there be contradictions? How can the god be both perfect and clearly insane? Why did he not do a great deal more good than he did? How could he have made any mistakes? How could he think his Dad had forsaken him? How can Jesus be human, and also perfect? How can he be worshipped alongside a jealous god? oh, and don't forget his mum!.... No sense at all. Nonsense.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 02:30 am
Eorl wrote:
Seen in the light of atheism, (in which he is not the son of any gods), Jesus was a great man who brought the simple concepts of peace, love, pacifism and humanism to his part of the world, and it caught on big time. Sure, he was a bit deluded, or a bit deceptive, but basically a good guy with some great ideas.


So, someone who claims to be God, and knows he is not God ( a colossal liar) is a great man, or maybe just 'a bit' deceptive, eh?

Or, someone who claims to be God, and doesn't know he is not God ( a raving lunatic) is a 'great man' , or maybe just 'a bit' deluded, eh?

Eorl wrote:
Seen in the light of him being the perfect son of a perfect god, it just makes no sense whatsoever. How can there be contradictions?.


There aren't.

Eorl wrote:
How can the god be both perfect and clearly insane? .


He's not both. He's perfect but not insane. Claiming to be God when you are God is not a sign of insanity.

Eorl wrote:
Why did he not do a great deal more good than he did? .


Did He ever do evil?

He changed the entire course of history for the good, but I suppose that's not good enough for you.

Eorl wrote:
How could he have made any mistakes? .


He didn't.

Eorl wrote:
How could he think his Dad had forsaken him? .


He didn't think that.

Eorl wrote:
How can Jesus be human, and also perfect?.


Since He is perfect, why would appearing in a human body make Him imperfect?

Eorl wrote:
How can he be worshipped alongside a jealous god? .


He is God. There is no 'alongside' to it. There is only one.

Eorl wrote:
oh, and don't forget his mum!.... .


No idea what you're saying. Care to elaborate, or should we be able to read your mind?

How could anything Mary does, or I do, or his brother does, or you do, make Him less than what He is?

Eorl wrote:
No sense at all. Nonsense.


So, since YOU cannot fully understand Him, therefore He must not be God, eh?

Let me ask you, if you DID fully understand God, do you think that would be much of a God?

Wouldn't we expect God to be beyond our capacity to fully understand?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 04:42 am
Real, didn't Jesus ask why his Father had forsaken him, while he languished on the cross?
0 Replies
 
Raul-7
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 03:12 am
Bartikus wrote:
What does the crescent moon symbol mean?


It has nothing to do Islam in general, it was incorporated by an Ottoman Empire founder after he defeated the Romans. Supposedly he had a dream in which he saw them and he thought they were a good omen. But historically, the Prophet (pbuh) or the Caliphates never used such a symbol. It is only under Ottoman rule did the symbol spread throughout the Muslim world. Islam denounces symbolism in general.

Bartikus wrote:

The Qur'an says, "And dispute ye not with the People of the Book [Jews and Christians and the Bible], except in the best way, unless it be with those of them who do wrong but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you," (29:46).

1. Question: Isn't the Qur'an here saying that the Muslim is to believe what the Bible says?


We believe in the Psalms, Torah, Injeel (Gospel) - which is why the Qur'an contains the same stories and Prophets found in all of these three Scriptures. But the Bible is different than the Injeel (Gospel), the Bible is a collection of works from different authors composed after Jesus (pbuh) was raised. More like 66 books in 1. Jesus (pbuh) preached with the Gospel, not the Bible.

Bartikus wrote:

When Muhammed (570 - 632) was alive, he claimed to receive the revelation of the Qu'ran from Allah. This means that at that time, the Bible which was in existence, could not have been corrupted because the Qu'ran states that God's word cannot be corrupted. The question I have for the Muslims is "When and where was the Bible corrupted, since the Qu'ran says that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel are from Allah and Allah's words cannot be changed?"


The Gospel was changed, which is why it does not exist today. The Bible you currently have does not resemble the Gospel in it's slightest as you know it's made of the OT and NT.

As one publisher (Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., Wheaton, Illinois) stated: 'The Bible may look like one book, but it is actually sixty-six books in one. Thirty-nine books make up what we call the Old Testament, and twenty-seven make up the New Testament. It is possible that more than forty writers were used by God to write all sixty-six books.' (Quoted from the "Holy Bible" - New Living Translation, Gift & Award Edition, l997, p. vii)

Hence why the Bible is not the word of God. The Quran refers to the Gospel, not Bible.

As for the verse referring to Allah's preserving of the Scripture-

It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur'ân) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption) [Quran 15:9].

The Scripture only refers to the Quran.

Furthermore, Allah states it in the singular form. Thus He was only referring to the Qur'an. If it was plural then we could have assumed otherwise.

Allah Almighty Says: "And We have sent down to you (O Muhammad SAW) the Book (this Qur'ân) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Mohayminan (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures) (Quran 5:48)

And Allah knows best.
0 Replies
 
Terry
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 01:10 pm
No one knows what Jesus actually said or claimed since he neglected to write anything down and historians of the time did not document his existence or message. You'd think God would have made sure something that important was transmitted accurately, instead of letting his words be corrupted by decades of story-telling before being written down. It was then left to ecumenical councils to pick and choose which of the centuries-old manuscripts (none of which had been written by eye-witnesses to Jesus' life and some that were obviously "pious frauds") best achieved their own agendas.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 03:39 pm
Bartikus wrote:
What does the crescent moon symbol mean?


It is commonly used to denote a place to conduct business. IMAGE
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2007 02:22 am
snood wrote:
Real, didn't Jesus ask why his Father had forsaken him, while he languished on the cross?


He sure did. The reason He asked Him that is because when Jesus took all the sins of the world upon Him God could not look upon Him. So, for a brief moment, God did turn His face from Jesus. You can find it in Matthew 27:46.

But, the good news is Jesus rose from the dead three days later and now sits at the righthand of the father.

Oh, and the judgment? That judgment comes at the end when we all stand in front of Jesus. He did not come to this world to judge it. But who better to judge than the one without sin? So, yes, in the end, He will be judging us all.
0 Replies
 
 

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