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FOLLOWING THE EUROPEAN UNION

 
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sat 27 Jun, 2015 06:02 pm
Walter, What's your opinion about the situation surrounding Greek debt? I believe it would be a great error for the EU or the IMF to succomb to the Greek demands. So far that appears to be the attitude of the relevant European leaders. What do you think will hapen next?
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sat 27 Jun, 2015 11:47 pm
@georgeob1,
I'd always thought that Greek never shoud have joined the Euro-Zone (at least not when they became a member).

The impact for people living there will be dramatic. (Worse than now.)

I really can't imagine what will happen next. Or later.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Sun 28 Jun, 2015 12:02 am
@Walter Hinteler,
In other words "they will pay for their moral crimes". But maybe they will not. THe thing about good rouges is that the morality police never pin them down. are never able extract the pain that they want to.......

EDIT: and yes, I am very aware of how much this happening would piss off a german.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Sun 28 Jun, 2015 02:53 pm
@hawkeye10,
My impression is that Greece has from the start been an unruly and fractious member of the EU. They have a long history of non-compliance with their own tax codes and the bureaucratic rules so widely used in the Union. They look both East and West, with ome residual vestiges of Byzantium remainin. I'm confident that Putin ( who has made himself into a 21st century reincarnation of NIcholas I) will try to stoke them.

In short I think Walter has a point here.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Sun 28 Jun, 2015 02:58 pm
@georgeob1,
The Greeks lied from start to finish, it was always about getting the most candy from whom ever was offering and working as little as possible. So why does anyone think that has changed? If I am right that the Russians and the Chinese are willing to play sugar daddy next then the Greeks could be expected to scamper off with them.

We already know what Walter thinks, that the Greek people suck and the government are in effect unruly children who dont have the first damn clue what they are doing.

Could be. We will know for sure in days not weeks.

BTW: If the Greeks walk away from all of this debt I have no sympathy for the Europeans, they did not do due diligence when they let Greece in, and they have been willing to play massive games of make believe once the evidence was clear what the situation was. Trying to live a fantasy should always carry pain to discourage the practice. Not dealing with problems should always cause the problems to get worse to discourage the practice.

Also, we got all kinds of stories of certain doom when Iceland walked away from debt. But they are doing fine. I am sure that the greeks took notice, both in that debt can be abandoned and that the purveyors of doom for committing the immoral act of not paying debt were wrong.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Sun 28 Jun, 2015 03:19 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

We already know what Walter thinks, that the Greek people suck and the government are in effect unruly children who dont have the first damn clue what they are doing.
I haven't read such expressions from Walter.


hawkeye10 wrote:

BTW: If the Greeks walk away from all of this debt I have no sympathy for the Europeans, they did not do due diligence when they let Greece in, and they have been willing to play massive games of make believe once the evidence was clear what the situation was. Trying to live a fantasy should always carry pain to discourage the practice. Not dealing with problems should always cause the problems to get worse to discourage the practice.
Those are easy mistakes to make and many other questions and issues impinge on them. After all we have Chicago & Illinois as well as Baltimore and Maryland. (Hell, California is getting close).

hawkeye10 wrote:

Also, we got all kinds of stories of certain doom when Iceland walked away from debt. But they are doing fine. I am sure that the greeks took notice.
Iceland and Ireland both faced their economic issues squarely and are recovering nicely. The Irish foolishly mationalized their Bank debt, making their problem more difficult, but they too are well on their way now. The difference was in the free market economic policies they both followed both before and after after the catastrophies.

The problems in Greece are of long standing and chronic, and they appear to be unwilling to do what is required to restore economic growth.


0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Thu 17 Sep, 2015 03:25 pm
Quote:
Tobias says he has caught refugees trying to steal from his garage more than once. "This is a small town; we're not used to such things and people are scared."


Waiting on the platform because trains have once again been cancelled as a result of the border controls, many Freilassing citizens would agree. But very few dare say so openly. Like Tobias, most citizens of the small town fear being labeled supporters of the far-right scene.
Dressed skater-style, their hair tousled, a group of teenagers is hanging out on the square in front of the train station. "It's rare that anyone speaks their opinion, because then they're immediately labeled right-wing or a Nazi," says Lukas.
With his hoodie, baggy jeans and skateboard, he certainly doesn't look like a neo-Nazi. But all the same, he says he's really had it. "But it's not only Germany that's overextending," he says. "Something has to happen fast, or Europe will self-destruct."

http://www.dw.com/en/refugee-crisis-in-bavarian-border-town-we-cant-take-them-all/a-18718368

It is very possible that language controls placed by the elite will be a prime mover of the destruction of the EU Project. There is no way to fix mistakes if they can not be talked about honestly, and when the little people know that the the elite both live in a world of delusion and are determined to perpetuate it they lose the little people.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Thu 17 Sep, 2015 04:15 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Reforming the asylum system would incur higher costs for Germany and require greater efforts to be made to integrate new arrivals. But the resources are there. In the first half of 2015, the German state earned more than €21 billion ($24 billion) more than it spent. The difficulties in processing refugees experienced these days by authorities in places like Munich, Dortmund and elsewhere are not so much symptomatic of any bottom-line inability to help but more the result of the federal interior minister's mismanagement. This spring, Thomas de Maizière formulated Berlin's asylum policy on the basis of obviously inaccurate figures.

The alternative to reforming the asylum law is to do away with it. The German government could admit that it's nice in theory, but that Berlin is unable or unwilling to actually implement it under the current difficult circumstances. This would amount to a betrayal of all the values Germany claims to hold dear. But it would be more honest than the current system of organized hypocrisy


http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/berlin-needs-to-reform-or-abolish-its-current-refugee-policy-a-1053275.html

Predictably it just keeps getting worse for the EU Elite fantasists. Up till a year ago I would not have believed it, but it appears that the EU elite have an even worse relationship with their little people than the American elite do, which is hard to do.

EDIT: I have read into this issue a bit, the mismanagement from Berlin is colossal. Troops on the front lines say that it is clear that the bosses are stuck in day to day crisis mode, and have not even begun to think about the millions more people who will be on their way if no changes are made, nor how to manage integration. Or how to pay for all of this. At the moment they are working on trying to figure out how who get people in warm places for the winter, managing to get that and nothing else accomplished seems like it would be a miracle at this point. The long range plans talked about are completely insufficient boarding on delusional.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Fri 18 Sep, 2015 12:10 pm
Elections in Greece this Sunday - so far it appears to be very close. This issue for the EU may not be over yet.

The continuing refugee crisis in Europe promises more strains on both the EU and the member nastions. There appear to be significant East/West divisions within the union on the acceptability of large numbers of refugees, first from the Mid East and likely later from North Africa. Even withing so far supportive nations such as Germany the actual process of absorbing and acomodating the refugee flood appears to be taxing the initially favorable policiy.

Meanwhile the latent strains within the union involving the growing and largely bureaucratic control of the finances and economies of member nations remain largely unresolved.

All of these things are issues which in one form or another affect many nations themselves, and many would continue to exist with or without the EU. However they all still challenge the Union and the likely outcome doesn't look very clear to me.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Fri 18 Sep, 2015 09:23 pm
Quote:
There are clearly no simple solutions, but criticism of the EU's incoherent response to the refugee crisis is mounting, and Europe's leaders know it.
Two EU meetings next week will be crucial, if that trend is to be reversed. But they'll take place amid serious disagreements between EU member states.
Governments in central Europe are issuing strong criticism of each other - for failing to protect their borders, or for passing the buck. And several of them blame Germany for encouraging so many migrants to travel in the first place.
Germany, in turn, has warned again that any country showing a lack of solidarity on this issue cannot count - over time - on receiving money from the rest of the EU.
If this becomes not just a difference of opinion, but a clash of values, then Europe could be in real trouble

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34291648

The situation on the front lines and the situation in the EU bosses cities and gone through day after day of deterioration. If these clowns can come up with a plan that they can all agree on they had better do it soon. If not they better start planning for what happens when the EU fails. This idea that the hoards will stop invading when winter sets in is delusion.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Sat 19 Sep, 2015 02:07 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
"It's very polarizing," a born and bred Dresdner, who asks to be named simply as Herzog, told DW, adding that people had become accustomed to adjusting their comments to avoid confrontations. "Within half a minute of conversation, you know who you're talking to and how you should express yourself if you want to be able to continue talking."
In addition to the PEDGIA rallies, he pointed out that there are "Refugees welcome" signs are all over his neighborhood.
"There are many facets of Dresden," he said. "I can only ask that you take a look around and try to understand your opponents and try to talk to many different people. Try not to shut them out."

http://www.dw.com/en/afraid-in-baghdad-not-in-dresden/a-18723996

This is where America is going if we dont wake the **** up, not being able to talk straight and honestly about a problem that could kill us if we dont figure it out.

Make no mistake. NOTHING is more important than making sure that free speech is preserved. Without it we cant function.
McTag
 
  2  
Sat 19 Sep, 2015 02:18 pm
@hawkeye10,

Quote:
Make no mistake. NOTHING is more important than making sure that free speech is preserved. Without it we cant function.


Even if it adds fuel to the fire of xenophobia? America is a land of immigrants, don't forget. Germany has a falling birthrate and a rising demographic. Look at the positives. And be aware enough to avoid the negatives. It depends on mental attitude, humanity, and co-operation.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sat 19 Sep, 2015 02:49 pm
@McTag,
It is interesting to note that every wave of immigrants to this country, starting with Germans in the 1840s and going through the successive waves of Irish, Eastern European Jews, Italians, Poles, Swedes, Czechs and Hungarians that followed, was accompanied by more or less the same public outcry about the alien forces distorting our society that accompamnied them. Each was subject to more or less the same initial discrimination, epithets and isolation and each followed more or less the same 2-3 generation ascent in the economy and society. After that period none of it mattered very much any more and some new flavors had been added to the common culture. Indeed the friction was generally greatest between the most recently arriving groups as they competed in their respective ascents up the economic ladder.

This may not be a universal or permanent pattern. We had lots of space for expansion during that period, and that likely enabled a good deal of the solution.

Europe has, by contrast a long pattern of cultural and linguistic competition and even conflict. Some of these historical strains are still occasionally evident. The mass movements of Germans Poles, Czechs and others that followed WWII is an often forgotten legacy of the wars of the 20th century. The EU has gone a very long way to tempering these issues, but the waves of immigrants reaching Europe over the past few decades, and particularly now, bring even greater cultural challenges for assimilation than the inter European movements of the past..
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Sat 19 Sep, 2015 05:12 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
but the waves of immigrants reaching Europe over the past few decades, and particularly now, bring even greater cultural challenges for assimilation than the inter European movements of the past..

Are there any modern assimilation success stories in Europe? I dont know of any, and for sure not in Germany, they who claim that they can now successfully process a half million people a year who dont share hardly any of their values or lifestyle. Based upon what record of doing this right in the past?

This should be interesting.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Sat 19 Sep, 2015 05:32 pm
@McTag,
McTag wrote:


Quote:
Make no mistake. NOTHING is more important than making sure that free speech is preserved. Without it we cant function.


Even if it adds fuel to the fire of xenophobia? Yes! America is a land of immigrants, don't forget We are also a land based upon laws, and people willingly following them most of the time. Germany has a falling birthrate and a rising demographic. Look at the positives. Diluting the German genetic stock with people whos gene contributers have accomplished little over the last half millennia or so is a questionable "positive" And be aware enough to avoid the negatives. It depends on mental attitude, humanity, and co-operation. You can sing "we are the world" with your friends and neighbors three times a day if you like, but human nature is not going to change just because you want it to, just because you demand it. And mental hygiene must be left to the individual, completely, not doing it is the definition of tyranny.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sat 19 Sep, 2015 07:26 pm
@hawkeye10,
The Europeans have indeed made enormous progress among themselves and that is indeed a very big change from previous centuries. I'm not sure the new flood of refugees coming from the Middle East anbd Africa is as easily assimilated as were the european nimmigrants we took in during the last two centuries.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 19 Sep, 2015 10:59 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Are there any modern assimilation success stories in Europe? I dont know of any, and for sure not in Germany, they who claim that they can now successfully process a half million people a year who dont share hardly any of their values or lifestyle. Based upon what record of doing this right in the past?
During the period after WWII the German government (especially the conservatives) always claimed, we were no immigration country. Totally ignoring that we actually became one.

But we didn't have such immigration waves like e.g. the USA or Australia.
The last has been in last decades of the 19th century.

Assimilation? Germany became first unified (aka 'Germany') in 1871. There are still problems between the various parts of the country today (not only language related).
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Sat 19 Sep, 2015 11:12 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
You seem to forget that I told you that I lived in germany most of the time between 89 and 98 and that during that time I worked with Germans. Do you know what they all told me? That the Turks sucked. They put up with the polak and the spic who worked in our shop but a Turk? Never.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Sun 18 Oct, 2015 11:03 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
A school in Lübeck, Germany, included “practical work experience” at a local asylum center into a week activities. The plan angered parents opposed the idea of their children changing linen on refugees’ beds, helping to cook food and sorting clothes.

An extract from a letter was posted in Facebook by a mother who obtained it from a friend whose son received it at school. Initially, the text sparked a mixture of bewilderment and disbelief in social media, but after a local newspaper got in touch with Schleswig-Holstein authorities, they confirmed the document was real.


https://www.rt.com/news/318631-lubeck-refugees-schoolchildren-servants/

If these immigrants cant even make their own beds I really dont see what use they are going to be in plugging Germany's skill labor shortage.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 19 Oct, 2015 02:40 am
@hawkeye10,
The mother, who made that posts is a member of an extreme right-wing neo-Nazi group ("Aufwachen Deutschland - Patriotische Plattform für moderne und zeitgenössische Informationen rund um das Thema Politik")

hawkeye10 wrote:
If these immigrants cant even make their own beds I really dont see what use they are going to be in plugging Germany's skill labor shortage.
The idea of a "Vorhabenwoche" (in other states called "Projektwoche") is to give pupils social competence, ativate their scills in morality, art, etc etc. [I've coordinated such 20 years ago over several years.]

Pupils choose which projects they want to join - like in the above mentioned school.
Unfortunately, parents are not included - some really would need it (like that mother).

 

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