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FOLLOWING THE EUROPEAN UNION

 
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sat 17 Mar, 2007 08:15 pm
A couple of questions for my European friends here: (1) What do you believe is the likelihood of a Sarkozy victory in the forthcoming French presidential elections? (2) Assuming he wins, what effect do you believe this will have on the near term movement towards greater European political unity?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sat 17 Mar, 2007 08:47 pm
(1) Pretty likely
(2) Not much

Razz
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sat 17 Mar, 2007 08:48 pm
(After my monster-answer to realjohnboy on the Dutch elections thread just now, that was just to prove that I can do short answers too Razz )
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Sat 17 Mar, 2007 09:53 pm
nimh wrote:
(After my monster-answer to realjohnboy on the Dutch elections thread just now, that was just to prove that I can do short answers too Razz )


Nimh: Thanks to you and other A2Kers, I can talk at great length about Europe at cocktail parties, preventing other folks from talking about their hemorrhoids. Their eyes glaze over. I am truly grateful to all of you. And I also know all about AUS, which is my fall-back-to topic.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 18 Mar, 2007 01:11 am
Sarkozy or Bayrot, I think.

Besides that, same opinion as nimh.

(Well, our Angie is similar to an angel, isn't she Laughing )

This are the latest results as published today in Le Journal du Dimanche (page 2)

http://i17.tinypic.com/455usug.jpghttp://i18.tinypic.com/2m6miig.jpg
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 18 Mar, 2007 02:49 am
And from today's Washington Post (page 18)

http://i17.tinypic.com/4ghfj87.jpg

Related report online: Royal Finds Female Voters Resistant
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 18 Mar, 2007 01:00 pm
I trust nimh's judgement more, but this is the view of an American correspondent:

Quote:
Fringes tugging at Central Europe
Discontent reigns as Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic and Slovakia struggle with their post-communist transformation


By Tom Hundley
Tribune Foreign correspondent
Published March 18, 2007


BUDAPEST, Hungary -- When British Holocaust denier David Irving is the honored guest at your National Day celebrations, you know something nasty is brewing in the body politic.

But there was Irving, fresh from serving his jail sentence in Austria, firing up a large crowd in Budapest's Heroes' Square last week on the 159th anniversary of the 1848 Revolution, the upheaval that brought Hungary its first taste of independence from the Habsburg emperors.

He was invited to speak by the far-right MIEP party, and his anti-Semitic message was tiresomely familiar: Hungary's present left-wing government was no better than the communist dictatorship that ruled the country for nearly half a century, and, he said, all European politicians were pretty much "in the pay of big money and foreign powers."

Leaders of Hungary's Jewish community didn't have to read between the lines. They advised their members to stay off the streets.

These days the parliament building in Budapest is ringed with an ugly double barrier of steel anti-riot barricades, the result of several days of running battles last fall between police and protesters outraged by Prime Minister Ferenc Gyurcsany's candid admission that his party had lied "morning, noon and night" about the state of the economy in order to win last year's election.

Hungary is not alone in this state of political muddle. Its Central European neighbors, Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovakia, also are wrestling with the demons of post-communist transformation. Each case is different, but a common thread of discontent binds them together.



`We don't know where to turn'

"Especially in Central Europe, you find that we are still fighting the Second World War and the Cold War," said Maria Schmidt, a right-wing commentator who also is director of the House of Terror, a quirky museum located in the Budapest building that once housed the Gestapo and later the communist-era secret police.

"We had great hopes for democracy and capitalism, but these turned out to be disappointing for many people, and now we don't know where to turn for answers," she said.

Populism, left and right, seems to be on the rise in Central Europe. Meanwhile, the drive for structural reform--so focused when these countries were outside the European Union and desperately hoping to get in--has flagged.

On the other hand, their economies are going great guns, fueled mainly by foreign investment. Each country experienced growth of 5 percent or better last year. That provides politicians with a soft cushion against hard economic choices, but many economists predict the bubble will soon burst.

In Poland, by far the largest and most important of the Central European countries to join the EU in the 2004 expansion, the political agenda is now dominated by the Kaczynski twins--President Lech and Prime Minister Jaroslaw--right-wing populists who have eschewed economic reform in favor of purging ex-communists from every nook and cranny of the bureaucracy.

A new "lustration" bill signed earlier this year by President Kaczynski has opened millions of volumes of communist-era secret police files in a belated attempt to slay "the post-communist monster" that the twins claim still haunts Poland. This month, they launched a major purge of the state radio.

Although elected with just 27 percent of the popular vote, they have moved swiftly to consolidate power. In just 18 months they have dismissed five finance ministers, two foreign ministers, their handpicked prime minister and a highly regarded defense minister.

Cabinet ministers aren't the only ones packing their bags. Martial law in the early 1980s produced a baby boom in Poland that is just coming of age, but its benefits are being squandered as tens of thousands of the country's best and brightest young people leave the country to look for better-paying jobs.

"We not using these people; we're exporting them to the EU," said Maciej Krzak, an economist at Lewiatan, a pro-business research group. "Unless we make the structural reforms necessary to keep these people home, it's an opportunity wasted."

But the attention of the twins' Law and Justice Party and its main parliamentary ally, the ultra-Catholic League of Polish Families, is focused elsewhere. In recent weeks, lawmakers have proposed new bills to ban gay-rights "propaganda" from schools and to crown Jesus as the symbolic "King of Poland."

Even the Polish bishops have blanched at the latter.

Not surprisingly, a recent survey found that 66 percent of Poles think the country is heading in the wrong direction.

Neighboring Slovakia rescued itself from pariah status nine years ago when voters ousted the semiauthoritarian regime of Vladimir Meciar and supplanted it with a reform-minded government headed by Mikulas Dzurinda. But now the pendulum has swung back.

continue >>
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 18 Mar, 2007 01:01 pm
http://i19.tinypic.com/2w583dk.jpg

Quote:
Robert Fico, a left-wing populist, became Slovakia's prime minister last year after forming a governing coalition with Meciar's much diminished People's Party and the xenophobic Slovak Nationalist Party.

Fico's winning formula was a pledge to halt the painful economic reforms. Last month he further exacerbated worries in the EU when he paid a controversial visit to Moammar Gadhafi's Libya; next month he tours Venezuela as the guest of Hugo Chavez.

Czechs under shaky coalition

Meanwhile, the Czech Republic was without a functioning government for an astonishing 230 days after a deadlocked election last June. A shaky center-right coalition finally was cobbled together in January, but its prospects for survival look bleak.

While the right-leaning governments of the Czech Republic and Poland have recently stirred unhappiness in the EU by so readily agreeing to accept the U.S. missile defense shield on their territory, left-leaning Slovakia and Hungary have irritated the EU by trying to cut their own energy deals with Russia.

It's not a question of left versus right, or ex-communists versus anti-communists, but rather modernizers versus populists, according Krisztian Szabados, an analyst at Political Capital, a Budapest research institute.

"In the Czech Republic, the former communists are the populists; in Hungary and in Poland the so-called right wing are the populists," he said.

At Hungary's National Day celebrations last week, Prime Minister Gyurcsany, a former communist youth leader who later made a fortune in real estate, limited his public appearances to an invitation-only speech at concert hall outside the city center.

His efforts to reform and modernize Hungary's economy have won the approval of investors and his Western European counterparts but earned him single-digit approval ratings at home. In recent interviews with European journalists, he warned that Hungary and its neighbors were in danger of slipping into the "isolation of radical nationalism."

He also accused his main rival, Viktor Orban, the former prime minister and leader of the populist Fidesz Party, of tolerating anti-Semitism.

Fidesz politicians reject the anti-Semitism charge, and they were careful to steer clear of last week's appearance by Irving. But their own National Day rally drew about 200,000 supporters, many of whom carried the red and white striped Arpad flag that was the symbol of the pro-Nazi government of 1944-45.

At the rally, the charismatic Orban railed against the "criminal regime" that was running the country and the "new aristocracy" of wealthy ex-communists. His supporters sang songs to the glory of the days when Hungary's territory included much of Slovakia and Romania.

Szabados, the analyst, said the Fidesz was "absolutely an old-fashioned left-wing socialist party ... [but] tactically they are not willing to distinguish themselves from right-wing extremism."
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sun 18 Mar, 2007 02:13 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
http://i19.tinypic.com/2w583dk.jpg

FWIW, my "eye-witness" impressions of the Fidesz demonstration and the riots later are here

Quote:
His efforts to reform and modernize Hungary's economy have won the approval of investors and his Western European counterparts but earned him single-digit approval ratings at home.

OK, here I'm torn.

I have little up with Viktor Orban's brand of rightwing populism, full of hyperbole about "democratatorship" now ruling in Hungary and nudge-nudge wink-wink encouragement of the far right.

But I also cant stand this hypocritical sanitised language thats the pro-business equivalent of political correctness.

"Reform". "Modernisation". Who could possibly be opposed to that? SOunds hunky-dory, no?

But dont forget that its also all an exasperatingly succesful exercise in Orwellian newspeak.

Reform and modernisation can almost always be roughly translated as massive lay-offs, drastic budget cuts, partial dismantling of the social care system, and in the current case of Hungary, massive tax rises.

Not so nice, eh?

A friend of mine was pretty devastated when I met her at a party the other night. She's a child psychologist. Adult psychological care in Hungary is lamentably absnet or underdeveloped. But they have a prettty sophisticated system of psychological care at schools. Every school will have a psychologist available for children in trouble. I was pretty impressed - we dont have anything likethat in Holland, and Im sure it prevents a lot of trouble (and financial cost as well, come to think of it) at later age.

Well, she's fired. Out of the blue. Not just her. Many thousands like her. The whole system is being dismantled at one blow. Everyone is out on the street, making chances of finding a new job within the profession minimal.

Random example? Theres more.

Heating prices in Hungary were until now still subsidized. Under communism of course they were merely symbolic. A gradual "marketisation" of prices had been implemented since then, but there was still up to 50% subsidy in place.

Is it being built down now? No, its been abolished, at one stroke of the pen. Meaning that heating costs have doubled for most.

The poor are hit hardest. They live in so-called "lakotelepek": high rise apartment blocks that were built in the 60s and 70s. They were built with a collectivist, archaic heating system - my landlady explained it to me once, I cant recount exactly. But what it comes down to is that theres no thermostat; no chance for individuals to turn the heating off or down when they're not home etc. No chances to save costs. So they have been hit hardest by the price rises.

Older people living on pensions in those neighbourhoods now face heating bills that are larger than their income.

At my work, of course, we're relatively buffered against the slashing costs of the "reforms". My income is low to middling to Dutch standards, but high to Hungarian standards, same for my colleagues. But just to give an indication of what is involved in these "reforms": tax rises mean that the net income for most of us will go down by 18% - in one stroke. Luckily I got a 6% payrise this year, but that still makes -12%.

Now I'll get by, no problem. But many face an acute crisis this year. And I get pretty angry when I hear smug West-European "market analysts", business consultants, and the host of mainstream media that appear to borrow its choice of language wholesale from these people, suavely comment on the praiseworthy "modernisation" and "reform" of the "pro-Western" Prime Minister.

Orwellian newspeak. Evil or Very Mad

I'll go crosspost this on my Hungary thread...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 18 Mar, 2007 02:50 pm
Some first results from the Finish elections:

Quote:
The Centre party received 24.8 per cent of the advance votes counted by 8pm (GMT+2) Sunday in Finland's general election.

The Social Democratic Party (SDP), the Centre's main government partner, took 22.9 per cent while the opposition National Coalition party pulled 21.8 per cent, enough for eight new seats in Parliament.

The Left Alliance received 9.4 per cent; the Green League, 6.5 per cent; the Christian Democrats, 4.9 per cent; the True Finns, 3.7 per cent; the Swedish People's Party (SPP), 3.3 per cent and the Communist Party of Finland, 0.7 per cent.

The early statistics appeared to show that the Greens were losing four seats and the Left Alliance and the SPP two between them. The True Finns were set to gain two seats and the Christian Democrats, one.

Some 100,000 advance votes had yet to be counted at 8pm.

In past general elections, advance voting in general and the geographical order in which counting is finished have normally favoured the Centre party.

Matti Vanhanen, prime minister and chairman of the Centre party, said the situation was exciting and admitted that his party had usually managed to gather a greater share of the advance votes in previous elections than in the current one.

At the same stage four years ago, the Centre enjoyed a margin of about four percentage points.

Mr Vanhanen added that advance voting had become more popular in southern Finland.

Eero Heinäluoma, the SDP leader, said he would wait for the votes from Helsinki and the surrounding Uusimaa electoral district, adding the advance voting figures gave the Social Democrats a better result than that predicted in polls.

Jyrki Katainen, chairman of the National Coalition party, said the advance voting outcome meant that people wanted change.

He added that on the basis of the early figures it looked like the National Coalition party would emerge as the winner.

source: Newsroom Finland
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sun 18 Mar, 2007 02:51 pm
Nimh, What you have described are indeed problems. however, are the competing political alternatives any better? Artificially sustaining uneconomic industries theough government taxation and subsidy merely promotes misallocation of resources and less output for all. Extensive government social problems generally involve high taxation and subtle losses of freedom. They do some good, but they are not without costs - often extensive and hidden. I don't suggest the we or anyone has found the perfect balance here, but I do have the strong impression that as a whole Europe would benefit from reduced government intervention, freer labor markets, and lower taxes.

The U.S. media increasingly portray the current French political campaign as a contest between Sarkozy and Bayrou. I suppose that campaigh rhetoric in France is no more accurate an indicator of post election policies than it is here in the States. However, France does appear to be at a crossroads, and it is interesting to speculate about what may come.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 18 Mar, 2007 02:54 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
However, France does appear to be at a crossroads, and it is interesting to speculate about what may come.


A crossroad .... to where?

What most Americans don't reallise: both the French president as well as the government (which isn't elected now) are from the same conservative, rightish UMP as Sarkozy is.

Bayrou is more centrist (UDF).
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sun 18 Mar, 2007 03:05 pm
I think that most Americans are well aware of Sarkozy's present role in the French government and his membership in the same party as President Chirac. They are also aware of the consistent efforts of Sarkozy to distance himself from the record of the present government. Finally, I believe it would be very difficult to find much consistency in the positions taken by Mr Chirac over his long political career. This, of course is true of most politicians who survive for a long period, but Chirac appears to have carried it farther than most.

Royal's rather strident socialist rhetoric has made it easy for a strong centrist argument (and candidate) to emerge. That was a bit unexpected here.

From the matter of the EU constitution, to the discontent of priviledged French youth with attempts to liberalize their labor markets, to the growing disaffection of immigrant populations; to the now diluted role of France in Europe, their flagging economy; and even their still very strained relations with the United States, I do believe France is at somewhat of a crossroads.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Sun 18 Mar, 2007 03:18 pm
Well, George, I really can't see why France would be at a crossroads.

Never had I felt more acutely than now the old French saying: Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sun 18 Mar, 2007 03:35 pm
That may well be the outcome. If so, it would not be unprecedended - as you noted. However I do believe that the moment does indeed carry the potential (and perhaps even the need) to address some timely and salient issues. Frankly, my expectation (inexpert though it is) was for some contest over fundamental issues. It is interesting to read your impressions, different as they are.

I listened to portions of the televised debates and political speeches of the candidates. I was amused to note that French political rhetoric is as vacuous, vague and empty as is its counterpart in this country.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sun 18 Mar, 2007 03:49 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
the True Finns, 3.7 per cent;

The what? Smile
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sun 18 Mar, 2007 03:52 pm
nimh wrote:
Walter Hinteler wrote:
the True Finns, 3.7 per cent;

The what? Smile


Perhaps they are really Hungarians !
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 18 Mar, 2007 04:04 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
I think that most Americans are well aware of Sarkozy's present role in the French government and his membership in the same party as President Chirac. They are also aware of the consistent efforts of Sarkozy to distance himself from the record of the present government.


Well, I'm sure that the A2K.members don't really represent most Americans, but here, most call them "liberals" or even "socialists".

Sarkozy is, btw, the second in line after the French Prime Minister - his title Minister of State ("Ministre d'État") is a honorific title showing his particular importance.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sun 18 Mar, 2007 04:40 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
georgeob1 wrote:
I think that most Americans are well aware of Sarkozy's present role in the French government and his membership in the same party as President Chirac. They are also aware of the consistent efforts of Sarkozy to distance himself from the record of the present government.


Well, I'm sure that the A2K.members don't really represent most Americans, but here, most call them "liberals" or even "socialists".

Sarkozy is, btw, the second in line after the French Prime Minister - his title Minister of State ("Ministre d'État") is a honorific title showing his particular importance.


I think the fraction of Americans who know Sarkozy's present role in government is more or less the same across our political spectrum -- if that is your meaning. I agree that A2K postings are likely not representative of Americans as a whole. However that is because guys like Blatham distort the picture --- he is no American, merely a Canadian socialist temporarily living in a capitalist paradise.

That it is Sarkozy, and not the current Prime Minister, who is the candidate of his party, is one of the reasons I speculated that the election may involve some fundamental shifts. I am truly curious about correctly interpreting the current French political contest, and I appreciate your responses.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 18 Mar, 2007 04:46 pm
That's why Sarkozy became leader of the Union for the Presidential Majority .... ehem, sorry, I meant ... Union for a Popular Movement (Union pour un Mouvement Populaire, UMP) in January :wink:
0 Replies
 
 

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