FOLLOWING THE EUROPEAN UNION

More about the aftermath of those Slovak elections:

Quote:

Conservative MEPS create group to monitor Slovakia

Brussels/Strasbourg, 6. 7. 2006, 20:33 (CTK)

The European People's Party-European Democrats (EPP-ED), the strongest conservative group in the European Parliament, decided today to create a monitoring team to closely watch developments in Slovakia.

EPP-ED chairman Hans-Gert Poettering said that the MEPs are embarrassed about the Slovak National Party (SNS), that is notorious for its xenophobic and ultra-nationalist opinions of ethnic minorities, particularly Hungarians and Romanies, being part of the government coalition which Slovak socialists have established.

The SNS is a member of the coalition government of Robert Fico, chairman of Smer (Direction)-Social Democracy (SD), which also comprises the People's Party-Movement for a Democratic Slovakia (LS-HZDS) of ex-prime minister Vladimir Meciar. [..]

The creation of the monitoring group was proposed by Slovak MEPs in the EPP-ED who come from parties of Dzurinda's former government coalition that has ended in opposition after the June early elections.

Representatives of the Party of European Socialists (PES) also conveyed its fears of the SNS to Fico during his visit to Strasbourg on Wednesday. The group threatens to suspend PES membership of Fico's Smer.

CTK

It'll be interesting to see how different groups' positions pan out, in comparison with positions taken when the far-right Freiheitliche entered government in Austria.

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Mr. Nimh posts the results of the survey below and he does not know that the Economy in the US is three times as good as the poor Socialist dupes in the EU?

Mr. Nimh has allegedly read some books in English. Here are two that he missed:

Frederick Von Hayek's Constitution of Liberty and

Milton Friedman's Free to Choose.

If some of the doctrinare Socialists in Europe read more of such books they would not have such high unemployment numbers.

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Mr. Nimh posts the results of the survey below and he does not know that the Economy in the US is three times as good as the poor Socialist dupes in the EU?

Mr. Nimh has allegedly read some books in English. Here are two that he missed:

Frederick Von Hayek's Constitution of Liberty and

Milton Friedman's Free to Choose.

If some of the doctrinare Socialists in Europe read more of such books they would not have such high unemployment numbers.

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bernardr wrote :
"If some of the doctrinare Socialists in Europe read more of such books they would not have such high unemployment numbers".

am i correct to assume that you have tried to compare united states unemployment statistics to european unemployment statistics ?
i think it can be said that those statistics are simply not comparable because they use different bases .
i understand that the u.s. statistics only include people who have been unemployed for six months or less . once a person is past the six months limit , benefits are no longer payable . therefore these people are 'dropped' , even though they are of course truly 'unemployed' - they are no longer 'unemployed' for statistical purposes .
a neat way of fixing a problem (not dissimilar to excluding food , gasoline etc from the 'official' inflation rate ! as a MSNBC commentator said recently : "when i told my wife what the inflation rate is , she took me shopping , so i could learn the true inflation number" Shocked

).
even MSNBC has questioned the low - official - numbers on more than one occasion.
i believe this has already been discussed previously .
it's best to understand unemployment numbers and other statistical information before drawing conclusions .
this is just to clarify this point .
hbg

...UNITED STATES UNEMPLOYMENT...

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I'm not sure about the statistics of other EU-countries, but in Germany

Quote:

Data refer to the number of persons aged between 15 and 65 registered at an employment agency, at the end of the month, seeking a paid job of at least 15 hours and a duration of at least 7 days which is liable to the state insurance scheme. Such persons must be fit for work and either not working or working less than 15 hours per week.

The main difference is not only what hamburger noted above but people workin less than 15 hours a week are still in that number .... and when you want to get 'social aid' and can work - you are automatically a person searching a job ... and on that list.

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there is certainly a great deal of confusion - even by people who should know ( such as economists , and who make comparisons that just don't stand up to scrutiny ).
i mentioned the 'official' inflation rate , because it's quoted all the time in newspaper articles , TV news etc , and people can't undertand why the quoted inflation rate is quite low when prices in the grocery store go up .
as i said , the MSNBC commentator received a lesson in 'true' economics when his wife took him shopping - and he acknowledged it !
hbg

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The U.S. (and other countries) maintain unemployment statistics to detect changes over time and to provide useful statistical measures of economic activity. Comparability of the data from one country to another is not a priimary concern - in the U,S, or in Europe.

If you are trying to get an accurate measure of the % of the available workforce that is unemployed in the sense that they are willing to work and actually seeking it, then some cut-off seems necessary merely to exclude those who have voluntarily retired or who have otherwise decided not to seek work. For this purpose, six months does seem reasonable, in that in almost all cases one who is truly willing to work and seeking it will find a job in that period of time. If instead one chooses to reject all but certain preferred forms of employment or to stay in a locale where there is no productive economic activity, then it can be said that he or she has chosen not to seek work.

Evidently public assistance in Europe provides for longer duration of coverage than here. That is a choice Europeans are certainly free to make. They can also choose toi describe people who have been on the dole for (say) a year as 'unemployed' if they choose, but in most cases the evidence strongly suggests that these people are not seriously seeking work.

In short, this is a semantical issue, not a real one. There is no logical basis on which to suyggest that the European data are "better" or "worse" than the U.S. data - they are merely different. The attempt to dfo so suggests an unspoken value judgement about the relative social policires of the countries involved. On that matter we shall see which of us is better adapted to meet the competitive challenges of the new global economy.

Beyond all this, there is compelling evidence of higher levels of structural or sustained unemployment in Europe, compared to the United States. It is very likely that a contributing cause factor for this is the extended duration of government benefits available to workers who style themselves as unemployed in Europe. It remains to be seen if the economies of Western Europe will be avle to long sustain these practices, given today's economic realities.

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georgeob1 wrote:

Evidently public assistance in Europe provides for longer duration of coverage than here. That is a choice Europeans are certainly free to make. They can also choose toi describe people who have been on the dole for (say) a year as 'unemployed' if they choose, but in most cases the evidence strongly suggests that these people are not seriously seeking work.

Perhaps you are not aware of the situation in Europe: it's nearly impossible for someone older than 50 to get a job. And even 45+ have difficulties.

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walter wrote :
"it's nearly impossible for someone older than 50 to get a job. And even 45+ have difficulties. "

certainly not much different in canada - unless you have some very special skills or are willing to take a job at close to minimum wage as a supermarket stacker or in a lumberyard or similar .
some of those people might have a pension - if they are 55+ and benefits from previous employment . so some of those might just want to top up their income .
but to find a job with a 'living wage' to support a family is pretty tough at that age .

i also recall that in the late 1940's and early 50's in germany it was difficult for people (mostly men , many who had came back from POW camps) to find suitable work at that age . many who had previously held good jobs were hired as day-labourers .
hbg

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Old but interesting:

Quote:

Brussels Eases Pressure on Romania's Coalition
2006/05/18 · BIRN Balkan Insight

(my) summary:

Quote:

Romania remains on course to join the EU by January 2007, after the European Commission commended its progress in the fight against corruption. Seen just six months ago as the most corrupt country in Eastern Europe, Bucharest is now winning praise, thanks largely to energetic justice minister Monica Macovei.

However, that may be of little interest to the third of the population that lives below the poverty line, which tends to blame both their government and the EU for sharp price rises. "Prices on food, petrol, electricity and gas have risen by more than 400 per cent since the start of the accession path," said Cosmin Antonescu, who struggles along on less than 150 euro a month.

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Unemployment Statistics Unreliable when comparing the US and Europe since they are measured differently?

I am quite familiar with the Bureau of Labor Statistics and how Unemployment is measured in the USA.

I don't know if Mr. Hamburger studied Economics but If he did he knows that any Unemployment Number reported by the Bureau of Labor Statistics BELOW 5% is considered to be equivalent to full employment.

There is no full employment in most of Europe no matter how it is measured and George Ob1 is quite correct to note that it will be just a matter of time until we see whether Europe can maintain Cradle to Grave Welfare, especially with aging pppulations.

But.let us turn to another measure. One with which there is little controversy.

htp://www.scaruffi.com/politics.gnp.html

Purchasing Power Parity(figures for year 2000)

USA---37,600

Japan---28,000

Germany-26,600

France----25,700

Britain----25,300

Italy------25,000

Canada---29.400

Mexico----9,000

Netherlands--26,900

The people below the poverty line in the USA live far better than 90% of the rest of the world's population.

They are not bogged down with Tyrants( North Korea) or with Socialism( France,Germany and Hungary are the worst offenders)

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BernardR wrote:

But.let us turn to another measure. One with which there is little controversy.

htp://www.scaruffi.com/politics.gnp.html

Purchasing Power Parity(figures for year 2000)

[...]

They are not bogged down with Tyrants( North Korea) or with Socialism( France,Germany and Hungary are the worst offenders)

Besides that your link didn't work and neither France nor Germany nor Hungary are run by Socialists (I advice to update your information via e.g. the CIA factbook) for instance Wikipedia ´says:

Quote:

A purchasing power parity exchange rate equalizes the purchasing power of different currencies in their home countries for a given basket of goods. These special exchange rates are often used to compare the standards of living of two or more countries. The adjustments are meant to give a better picture than comparing gross domestic products (GDP) using market exchange rates. This type of adjustment to an exchange rate is controversial because of the difficulties of finding comparable baskets of goods to compare purchasing power across countries.

Market exchange rates fluctuate widely, but many people believe that PPP exchange rates reflect the long run equilibrium value. The distortions caused by using market rates are accentuated because prices of non-traded goods and services are usually lower in poorer economies. For example, a US dollar exchanged and spent in China will buy much more than a dollar spent in the United States.

The differences between PPP and market exchange rates can be significant. For example, GDP per capita in China is about USD 1,500, while on a PPP basis, it is about USD 6,200. At the other extreme, Japan's nominal GDP per capita is around USD 37,600, but its PPP figure is only USD 31,400.

Estimation of purchasing power parity is complicated by the fact that countries do not simply differ in a uniform price level; rather, the difference in food prices may be greater than the difference in housing prices or in the opposite direction of the difference in entertainment prices. People in different countries typically consume different baskets of goods. It is necessary to compare the cost of baskets of goods and services using a price index. This is a difficult task, since purchasing patterns and even the goods available to purchase differ across countries. It is necessary to make adjustments for differences in the quality of goods and services. Additional statistical difficulties arise with multilateral comparisons when (as is usually the case) more than two countries are to be compared.

Where PPP comparisons are made over some interval of time proper account needs to be made of inflationary effects.

Source

Little controversy?

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I'll accept your information< Walter Hinteler. I am not like American Liberals who will lie, distort and never ever read evidence that is contrary to their prejudices. Let us look then at GDP.

Perhaps you can find a demurrer about GDP comparisons. If you do, I would like to see it.

GDP comparisons:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29

GDP-US-12,485,725

jAPAN-4,571,725

Germany-2,797,343

China-2,224,811

I think Germany should get its act together. I said that Socialism was the problem in Germany,France and Hungary. I know Hungary has a Socialist Government--Nimh celebrated it on these threads just a couple of days ago and Germany?

I know how to read( see below's quote-- Is GDR not Germany or is that the old Eastern section? None the less Germany is shot through with outdated Socialistic
procedures that do not work in a world which is into globalization. No Economy like the US capitialistic economy would ever have a shameful 11% unemployment.

None of the nine socialist countries of Eastern Europe (Albania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, GDR, Hungary, Poland and URSS), nor the nine falling in the category of "others" (Byelorussian SSR and Ukranian SSR, Holy See, Israel, Liechtenstein, Monaco, Mongolia, San Marino, and South Africa), have taken any action.

Now, for the link that did not work

http://www.scaruffi.com/politics.gnp.html

It can't be found on the Internet but I do have in my possession a copy of

GROSS NATIONAL PRODUCT

(2000 data, Billion dollars)
(Product per capite in parenthesis, thousand dollars)

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BernardR wrote:

None of the nine socialist countries of Eastern Europe (Albania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, GDR, Hungary, Poland and URSS), nor the nine falling in the category of "others" (Byelorussian SSR and Ukranian SSR, Holy See, Israel, Liechtenstein, Monaco, Mongolia, San Marino, and South Africa), have taken any action.

Taken any action against what?

PS - Ukrainian SSR? As in, Socialist Soviet Republic? And "Czechoslovakia"? URSS - I suppose thats the USSR?

You realise none of these entities have existed since 1992?

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Well I suppose that explains them not taking any action.

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hamburger wrote:

i think it can be said that those statistics are simply not comparable because they use different bases .

That's true, but the OECD maintains a database of standardized unemployment rates. They correct for those differences and make the data comparable between nations. After these corrections, Europe looks a little better and the US a little worse, but they don't change the overall picture much.

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nimh wrote:

BernardR wrote:
None of the nine socialist countries of Eastern Europe (Albania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, GDR, Hungary, Poland and URSS), nor the nine falling in the category of "others" (Byelorussian SSR and Ukranian SSR, Holy See, Israel, Liechtenstein, Monaco, Mongolia, San Marino, and South Africa), have taken any action.

Taken any action against what?

PS - Ukrainian SSR? As in, Socialist Soviet Republic? And "Czechoslovakia"? URSS - I suppose thats the USSR?

You realise none of these entities have existed since 1992?

GDR ... as German Democratic Republic. You mean, ... Embarrassed

I know, it takes six to eight weeks until some news reaches the Amrican colonies ...

Now, get a bit serious and wake up: the GDR ended in 1990.

And today is 2006.

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Sorry to interrupt here, but... Tony Blair wants to change the G-8 to G-13 AND include Mexico?

Haha, I'm flattered.

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Yes, according to today's Guardian. (The G8 meetings are not all EU-connected, directly not, at least.)

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thomas :
of course , attempts are made to make data comparable .
i question how useful the resulting information is after it has been massaged .
if 'adjusted' data is used to arrive at statistcs/information , at least it should be stated what adjustments were made and what the information looks like before and after adjustment .
my experience has been that is not always possible to smooth/adjust/massage data and still come up with reliable information .

i'm not saying that no attempt should be made to gather and compare stastical information. but as stated above , one needs to know how the input was manipulated , and caution should be used when using such output(information/stats).

(i think i posted this story before ; so pls skip it if you wish . it comes out of my almost thirty years experience in the life insurance industry . of course , the insurance industry would not exist without statistics . number crunching is a must before the actuary grabs pencil and paper to make the 'real' decision .
here goes : a group of actuaries were lost in the woods . they came to a river and had to decide if it would be safe to cross on foot . the junior actuaries were given the task to make the necessary calculations , so a decision could be made on whether it would be safe to wade across .
the juniors calculated the average depth to be 4foot 6 , and it was decided to cross the river .
of course , none of the actuaries made it across - they all drowned Crying or Very sad

- unfortunately no one could swim either .
actuaries always had a lot of those 'jokes' to tell , to illustratte how dangerous it is to use statistics without understanding the underlying data - a favourite term our chief actuary used was "to put on a thinking cap" after all the data had been crunched and before making a decision - he didn't want to drown ! ).
'nuff for now .
hbg

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