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FOLLOWING THE EUROPEAN UNION

 
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sun 19 Jun, 2005 08:26 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
European (= opposed the UK) ...... Austrian Chancellor Wolfgang Schuessel, who warned that London cannot continue to "force its path on others" in a comment on the dreadful results from the EC summit this week in Brussels.

Otherwise, there is a real danger that each member state will only fight for itself, and the concept of a united Europe will be left on the wayside, he said in an interview with Germany's public broadcaster ARD.


I suspect this remark was taken out of context. I'll confess to being but a distant and somewhat amateur observer of the EU scene, however, my strong impression is that it has been the Franco-German Axis that has been in the long habit of forcing its path on others - and not the UK.

Worse, this whole scene appears to me to be a very cynical attempt by Chirac to "change the subject" from the French rejection of the EU constitution. (1) The French reject the constitution by a substantial majority. (2) Chirac demands that the British continue with their referendum and simultaneously demands a renegotiation of a previously settled issue on the British rebate. (3) Blair counters with a proposal for a re examination of the bloated EU agricultural subsidies(4) Chirac and his stooges accuse the British of damaging the union and trying to force their will on others. Amazing !


Quote:
"It's certainly the question of the concept. The British want a different Europe. They want more a market-oriented Europe, a large market, but no deeper union," Schuessel told First German Televion (ARD).
Given that it is the French and the Dutch who rejected the constitution, this is an odd moment for a resurrection of this canard. I wonder if Schuessel believes Old Europe will be able to sustain its regulated labor markets, high taxes and social welfare policies in the face of their economic stagnation, demographic decline and the external competitive factors facing them.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 19 Jun, 2005 08:36 pm
Quote, "I wonder if Schuessel believes Old Europe will be able to sustain its regulated labor markets, high taxes and social welfare policies in the face of their economic stagnation, demographic decline and the external competitive factors facing them."

These are dyanmics that will not go away any time soon, and I also wonder what's in store for the future of the EU.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 19 Jun, 2005 11:16 pm
georgeob1 wrote:

I suspect this remark was taken out of context.


Might be, but at least it didn't seem so in the televised interview.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 19 Jun, 2005 11:19 pm
Quote:
If President Jacques Chirac hoped to regain some domestic popularity through his European showdown with Tony Blair, the French press and opinion polls will be making grim reading in the Elysée Palace.

The consensus of most French press commentary over the weekend was that the British Prime Minister had "won" the Battle of Brussels (on the eve of the 190th anniversary of the Battle of Waterloo). President Chirac was presented as a double loser, on the future of the EU constitution and the future of the EU budget. The centre-left newspaper Le Monde, in an editorial headed "Blair prend la main" (Blair takes over) pointed to the paradoxical consequences of the French non to the European constitution three weeks ago. Left-wing campaigners for the "no" vote in France had promised a plan B in which Paris would be able to impose a more "social", protectionist, anti-free-market Europe. In fact, the "champion of social-liberalism", Tony Blair, had been placed in the driving seat, Le Monde said. "The only plan B which exists ... is the plan Blair," the newspaper said.

But much of the "praise" for Mr Blair was ironical. His refusal to accept a freeze in the UK rebate, even at a higher level than this year, was seen by the French press as a kick in the teeth to the poorer, new members in eastern Europe who had been prepared to give up some of their own potential gains from the EU. French officials also predicted Mr Blair's apparent victory in Brussels would be empty. "If Blair had accepted the final compromise on Friday, which was extremely generous to the UK, he would have been in a position to call the tune for the rest of this year and maybe beyond," one French diplomat said. "As it is, even his allies in Europe are angry with him. He will get nowhere."
France sees Chirac as loser in the 'Battle of Brussels'
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 19 Jun, 2005 11:21 pm
Quote:
Tony Blair will this week attempt to reach out to the next generation of European leaders when he travels to Brussels for the second time in seven days to declare that he is no Margaret Thatcher.
Bruised by his battles with Jacques Chirac and Gerhard Schröeder - who are now regarded in No 10 as yesterday's men - the prime minister will appeal over their heads to reassure their successors he is not an American-style free marketeer.

Blair reaches out to the new Europe
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Mon 20 Jun, 2005 03:46 am
Jack Straw said yesterday that the crisis can be ignored and left to turn into a disaster, or transformed into a moment of catharsis. [i.e. do it our way].
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Mon 20 Jun, 2005 04:19 am
Jack Straw is right. Catharsis (literally a "cleanup" in ancient Greek) is long overdue - not least in the EU budget which has NEVER won unqualified approval by auditors.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Mon 20 Jun, 2005 04:26 am
Here is the remainder of the article from the Independent that Walter quoted above.

Quote:
France's Europe minister, Catherine Colonna, warned in a radio interview that the future of Europe could be decided only by all 25 nations, not one country wishing to impose its view. There could be no policy of "rupture" with the past, she said, only a collegiate or "consensual" decision on how to move forward.

French officials dismissed suggestions in the British press that M. Chirac would set out on a personal crusade to block Mr Blair. The Elysée Palace specifically contradicted reports the President would "snub" the first day of Mr Blair's showpiece, the G8 summit at Gleneagles next month. There would be no need for France to put itself in such an exposed position, the officials said. Mr Blair had so angered the other member states that a French rearguard action would be unnecessary.

One Paris official said that Mr Blair seemed to have gone into "messianic mode", believing that he could singlehandedly transform the EU. Any attempt to appeal directly to European "peoples" over the heads of their governments would be a farce, he predicted.

Mr Blair will speak to the European Parliament this week, before taking over the presidency of the EU. He is expected to stress that he is not donning the mantle of Lady Thatcher by wrecking the prospects of agreement at last week's EU summit, which collapsed amid acrimony in the early hours of Saturday.

The Prime Minister will stress that he is not simply following free-market Conservative policies, but has been responsible for the minimum wage among other initiatives to protect the lowest paid and worst off in society. However, he will make it clear that he intends to crusade for economic reform during the UK's presidency of the EU for the next six months.


What I find so remarkable in all this is the implicit attitude of the various officials of the French government, and the degree to which they project their own elitism and evident desire for sole control onto the British PM. Particularly amusing was the paraphrased remark of the unnamed official who more or less said, " Mr Blair seemed to have gone into "messianic mode", believing that he could singlehandedly transform the EU. Any attempt to appeal directly to European "peoples" over the heads of their governments would be a farce, he predicted." The only farce here is the implicit claim by an official of the French government that they can speak for the European "peoples" - or even their own in France!

It is also rather amazing to me to note the accusations of British greed and willingness to deprive the new members of their due through the budget rebate. If I understand the data posted here and widely cited in the press, the UK - even after the budget rebate - is a much greater per capita donor to other EU nations than is France. If my understanding is correct, this is a most outrageous bit of chutzpa and hypocrisy on the part of the French government.

What is particularly sad in all of this is that, what I regard as the key underlying issues - the development of the new members in the East and the reinvigoration of the economies and competitiveness of the old ones in the West - are being ignored in all the backbiting and name-calling.
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Mon 20 Jun, 2005 04:53 am
George - in all those figures for per capita contributions to the EU budget >

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40624000/gif/_40624960_givers_and_takers2_gra203.gif

> you also got to read the footnotes:
_____________________________________________________________
- Based on figures for operational expenditure
- Belgium and Luxembourg are net beneficiaries when admin spending is taken into account
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4078796.stm
_____________________________________________________________
AFTER reimbursement for "administrative costs" (on a cost-plus basis, ahem!) Luxemburg and Belgium are net recipients. So much for Juncker's claims his tiny country is a major contributor.

Chirac is going on 2007 when his presidential term is up; his main challenger, Sarkosy, is against both the "constitution" text and Turkish membership. Villepin had to take him into the new government in order to win a confirmation vote from the French parliament for himself as PM and for his cabinet. To sum up - your reading of the situation in France is correct even though you may not have followed the situation in detail.
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Mon 20 Jun, 2005 04:56 am
And yes, Britain DOES contribute MORE per capita than France, so Chirac's apocalyptic tirades about Blair (the battle of Waterloo?! gimme a break) are not just hypocritical they're out-and-out fraudulent.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Mon 20 Jun, 2005 05:00 am
georgeob1 wrote:
Particularly amusing was the paraphrased remark of the unnamed official who more or less said, " Mr Blair seemed to have gone into "messianic mode", believing that he could singlehandedly transform the EU. Any attempt to appeal directly to European "peoples" over the heads of their governments would be a farce, he predicted." The only farce here is the implicit claim by an official of the French government that they can speak for the European "peoples" - or even their own in France!

I like how Berthold Brecht put it in his poem about the East German revolt of June 17, 1953: "Why does the government not dissolve the people and elect a new one?"
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Mon 20 Jun, 2005 05:30 am
Lord Ellpus wrote:
Just a question re, Chirac by the way.....I am told by my French branch of the family, that Chirac enjoys immunity from police questioning and prosecution whilst he is President, and there are several investigations that will be immediately re-opened when he leaves office, involving MAJOR corruption on his part. [..]

Anybody have any more info. on this matter?

It's true. Chirac was confronted with an extensive prosecution effort over corruption affairs from the time he was mayor of Paris reaching him personally as well. But the prosecution was eventually suspended, not because of lack of evidence, but because the highest court that it got to judged that Chirac would be immune as long as he was President, as preventing damage to the office of the Presidency was a higher cause than prosecuting said allegations. I have no idea whether it will be possible to restart or reopen the case once he's no longer President (but I sure hope so).
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Mon 20 Jun, 2005 05:38 am
I didn't realize that Brecht was given to such remarks about practicioners of his former ideal social organization. It was a good - and in the present circumstances - apt summary.

Helen,

I am a bit confused by the budget details. I also have some mixed feelings about the agricultural subsides - France and Germany in particular have done some very good things to control land use and prevent suburban sprawl. The tradeoffs here are difficult to measure, and I suppose much depends on the values of local communities. There are side effects to all policy possibilities in this area and their net effect can be difficult to estimate. I don't like the authoritarian socialism called for in these policies, but do concede they have been applied with some good effect in France & Germany.

It is interesting that, while Blair's political opponents on the continent "accuse" Britain of being more prosperous than others, they fail to acknowledge that it was the policies of the now despised Margaret Thatcher that brought about the transformation.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Mon 20 Jun, 2005 05:38 am
HofT wrote:
and didn't the Deutsche Welle use to be communist?!

Huh? Shocked

What a wild allegation.

The Deutsche Welle has been the international public broadcaster of the Federal Republic of Germany - that's West-Germany for you folks - since 1953. The German equivalent of BBC World, so to say. Its first broadcast had West-German President Theodor Heuss, former leader of the FDP, speaking to "our cherished countrymen around the world".
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Mon 20 Jun, 2005 05:41 am
NIMH - you will excuse me for observing that I know Germany better than you do, having lived and worked there for years; I stand by my previous statement.

A quick scan of the European press today shows the only people who have managed to stay level-headed are the Swiss - of course they're not EU members, which might account for it - with the NZZ (country's best paper) headlining in its front page >

http://www.azonline.ch/upload/images/sda2005/06/20050620034004.jpg


> "The Whales Win Again"
http://www.nzz.ch/2005/06/20/vm/newzzEA6DFYNY-12.html
about the whaling conference where Japan lost the vote.
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Mon 20 Jun, 2005 05:43 am
Btw, NIMH, since you were/are a supporter of the most extreme left in Germany and in Europe in general you should know better Smile
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Mon 20 Jun, 2005 05:44 am
Brecht's poem was indeed a good one (it's always made me chuckle); and Brecht's own role in the GDR quite ambiguous. Here's the poem:

Quote:
"Die Lösung"

Nach dem Aufstand des 17. Juni
Ließ der Sekretär des Schriftstellerverbands
In der Stalinallee Flugblätter verteilen
Auf denen zu lesen war, daß das Volk
Das Vertrauen der Regierung verscherzt habe
Und es nur durch verdoppelte Arbeit
Zurückerobern könne. Wäre es da
Nicht doch einfacher, die Regierung
Löste das Volk auf und
Wählte ein anderes?

"The Solution"

After the uprising on June 17th
The Secretary of the Writers Union
Had flyers distributed in Stalin Way that said
That the People had frivolously
Thrown away the Government's Confidence
And that they could only regain it
Through Redoubled Work. But wouldn't it be
Simpler if the Government
Simply dissolved the People
And elected another?
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Mon 20 Jun, 2005 05:44 am
HofT wrote:
NIMH - you will excuse me for observing that I know Germany better than you do, having lived and worked there for years; I stand by my previous statement.

Which one? That the Deutsche Welle used to be communist? It wasn't.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Mon 20 Jun, 2005 05:47 am
Wales usually lose. Who were they playing?
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Mon 20 Jun, 2005 05:47 am
George - yes, Brecht was a card-carrying communist, but he really did say what Thomas quoted on that occasion; his trajectory of disillusionment is roughly comparable to Orwell's.
0 Replies
 
 

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