Google's page rank - democracy at work or a dartboard?

Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2003 01:53 pm
Hi Craven and Co.!
Well, I've read various "ad" e-mails about SEO (that's knowledgable talk from an unknowledgable guy) about google page rankings.
Now, my piddly site isn't even ranked - google visited once and never came back. guess my coffee sucked. anyway, from what i've read about google, you get ranked based on links going back to your site - more links, more rank. now i'm linked on at least 10 active sites, but by ranking is still zippo. zilch. da big nada.
I registered with dmoz.org - which was more of a pain than you'd believe because their server kept having errors after i put all the info in - i also read if you keep submitting yourself, or resubmit too quickly, you'll get blacklisted - we don't want that.
my index.html file has a redirect, which i understand is a no-no. i wanted to make something just for google, but now have learned that is cloaking. um, HELLLLLLLLLLP! Smile
I've submitted my site to google twice - once http://www.gadgetaddict.com and the other time, http://www.gadgetaddict.com/forums/portal.php
google does "know" about portal.php however it comes up empty when you look at the google cache of the page. any help would be appreciated, and please let me know which polish you prefer for your shoes! Smile
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Craven de Kere
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2003 02:48 pm
Ok, first of all Search Engine Optimization is the area in which I am the most skilled of all the things web development involves but a few my answers are disputed by other skilled SEOs.

I have studied an old Google algorithm (hereafter referred to as "algo) but they tweak the algo quite frequently what I say is subject to change (though the chances that the stuff I tell you here will change are quite remote).

So I will stick to what all the good SEOs agree on.

First let's define Page Rank.

To simplify there is keyword page rank and site page rank.

"Keyword page rank" doesn't really exist but basically it is calculated in the Google algo through the general page rank and the keyword relevancy.

Keyword relevancy is determined through several factors. The following are not in perfect order of importance (because it can vary depending on the keyword and depending on other factors) but close.

A) Inbound links that use the keyword(s) in the link.

e.g. A link to www.cnn.com helps cnn's overall page rank but does not help them with a keyword like "news" for example.

A link like : news helps page cnn's rank for the keyword "news".

Therefore using links like "click here" is not advisable. Make sure you link to your own pages with the keywords you want to target.

B) Page title. The title of your page is very very important. By title I mean the title specified in the header of the page, the one that shows up in the browser window.

With phpbb forums I believe I am the first person to strip the page titles all the way down to the topic titles. This was a very important move.

C) URL a keyword in the URL can help a lot in some circumstances. Note that on this site the pages in the root directory all have keywords in the page name (e.g. aa_relationships.php ).

D) Keywords in big hext. Using the <h> tags helps. Make your key words display with large text on your page.

E) Keyword frequency. Keyword frequency does not mean repeating your keyword ad nauseum. Search Engine algos will try to catch that as a form of "keyword spam".

What you should do is make sure that the keywords are as high on the page as possible. A few algos rank words higher on the pages higher in their system.

You should also try to use the keyword in different ways. We get lots of people searching for "Excell" help here because I misspelled it in an early thread.

If your keyword is "dogs" you need to use "canine" "K9" etc in your page.

That is the very simple (VERY SIMPLE) page rank tutorial.

Here is a
tutorial on making forum topics popular in search engines.

My next post will cover basic SEO strategy for a new site.
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Craven de Kere
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2003 03:07 pm
Opening a site and how to get S.E. traffic.

A) finish your site before you open it. If a visitor can tell that your site is still "under construction" then it's not ready. Finish it.

All sites are under eternal construction. If it's obvious to a visitor then you need to fix that before you work on anything else.

B) Did you choose a good domain name? If you need help choosing a domain name I can write a tutorial on that.

C) Make sure you have content. Even if your site is finished you need a few hundred pages of content that a search engine can spider.

D) MAke sure the content is optimized for search engines. If you'd like more tips on optimizing for search engines ask me.

E) Submit your site to Dmoz. This is one of the most important steps. Research Dmoz first. Find the categories you want to target and think it through. Do not hurry this. Dmoz is edited by humans so while you can and may submit again you might piss off the editor.

Get it right the first time!

Find the categories and make sure you know which editors edit multipe categories you want to target. Avoid submitting to the same editor, even if it's in different categories. They might just accept you in one category and reject you in the other.

Make sure your DMOZ site description is PERFECT. It will be used on hundreds of other sites. Think before you submit.

BTW, your description should be dry. Do not dare use a "call to action" like "come visit our site" as this will get you nowhere fast.

Dmoz is SLOW SLOW SLOW to update. Keep track but do not submit again for 6 months.

F) A Dmoz listing is enough for any search engine to find you. But if you'd like submit again. Be exact when you submit to other search engines and DO NOT try again for 6 months.

It usually won't hurt you but still, remember to forget about it. :-)

G) Target Yahoo next.

This is HARD. Yahoo tries to make you pay for any listings. Be even more carful when you submit to yahoo because they have far fewer editors than DMOZ. Get it right the first time!

Cool trick: Submit to Yahoo directories in foreign countries as well.

H) Exchange linsk wioth other sites. To do this you ahve to be willing to give them good links too. Ideally you should exchange text links with sites that are related to yours.

Repeat these basics once a year.
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Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2003 04:03 pm
great info - now tell me what's taking so long to get huskerhost.com
rolling in google? well you can get it but much harder than I like.
metatags and all!
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Craven de Kere
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2003 04:08 pm
Google does not pay any attention to meta tags.

You need inbound links. I have 28 sites that google has visited but not indexed because I have not yet started the promotion for them.

But Husker, I have bad news for you.

Hosting is somethign that you will probably not get many google referrals from. It's one of the most cut throat and competitive keywords on the internet.

You might as well just focus on other ways to get your business. I really don't think SEO will pay off for you (unless you spend thousands of hours on it).

Just a recommendation. The reason I closed an old hosting company I'd opened was because of how many hosts are out there competing. You need to be very dedicated or you get 0.

It's not like other keywords where if you do half the job you get half the results. In hosting you need to be perfect!

I'd recommend affiliate programs and CPC ad campaigns if you want to expand your business.
0 Replies
Craven de Kere
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2003 04:09 pm
If you want proof that hosting is quite competitive look at the directory on DMOZ.

When DMOZ alphabetizes sites on different pages it means you are in a TOUGH category!
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Reply Fri 4 Jul, 2003 09:38 am
Good tips!! I was aware of all these, but it's nice to have it in a good list like this.

Another thing I'd recommend is, after DMOZ & Yahoo, particularily targetting local directories for getting your site listed. For example all sites I set up in Tokyo get listed at sites like japanreference.com and heaps of other local directories. This of course would be much less relevant if your site was a forum, joke site, or something else where geographical keywords are inconsequential to you.
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Reply Fri 4 Jul, 2003 11:40 am
Hi, I am new here Very Happy and hope I can find some answers to question I didn't find anywhere else.

Are search engines able to read server side includes? I have a header.ssi where I have all my Meta Tags, etc. I include this page on all my pages, but am wondering if it gets picked up by search engines or if they fly right on over it.

Thanks for the help. This looks like a great place to be!!
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Craven de Kere
Reply Fri 4 Jul, 2003 02:30 pm
Most serach engines will see read most server side includes in my limited experience with them.

The easiest way to be sure is to simply spider your page yourself. If you'd like I can spider it for you and tell you what is being picked up.

If the site in question is the one you list as your favorite I have already done so and you have nothing to worry about.
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Reply Fri 4 Jul, 2003 02:33 pm
skinnz wrote:
Hi, I am new here Very Happy and hope I can find some answers to question I didn't find anywhere else.

Are search engines able to read server side includes? I have a header.ssi where I have all my Meta Tags, etc. I include this page on all my pages, but am wondering if it gets picked up by search engines or if they fly right on over it.

Thanks for the help. This looks like a great place to be!!

Sorry I can't help you - i thought ssi was social security insurance! but i will say in the short time i've been on this site, i've received invaluable help.
so i say, welcome skinnz! i'm sure craven can rattle off the answers you need, or maybe some other guru can...
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Craven de Kere
Reply Wed 16 Jul, 2003 01:32 am

You have now been properly cached in google.

The old redirect is no longer killing your SEO and you are in the index. Congrats!

Now you must keep up the SEO until you have enough page rank for Google to index more pages.
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Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2003 08:41 am
Thanks for keeping an eye on this for me Craven! (actually, I was checking every day anyway but got hit with a fever this week).
Now off to the SEO! Smile
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