Know Thy Enemy

The NRA when talking about second amendment rights and priviledges isn't attempting to extend those to the guns, which is what HSUS is trying to do for animals. HSUS is an extremist organization to the Nth power. The NRA is not by any means. The NRA doesn't associate itself with and financially support domestic terror groups such as Greenpeace, PETA, and ALF/ELF. HSUS does.

We could also talk about the merger/aquisition of the "Fund for Animals", another extremist group with a warm and fuzzy sounding name.

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Re: Know Thy Enemy

cjhsa wrote:

HSUS is an extremist organization to the Nth power.

I repeat my question:

djbt wrote:

What do you mean by the word 'extremist', and why is it necessarily a pejorative term?

To cjhsa: your opening post implies that the actions of the HSUS are morally questionable. Can you explain why you think it is wrong to oppose "dog breeding, conventional livestock and poultry farming, rodeos, circuses, horse racing, marine aquariums, and fur trapping"?

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Why the hell would it be appropropriate to be against any of those activitiees if they are being performed correctly? Dog breeding? I like dogs. Conventional farming? I like to eat. Rodeos? Those bulls bust people's ass. Horse racing is cruel? Ask the horse, they love to run. Marine aquariums? The Monterey Bay Aquarium has done more for marine life welfare than HSUS will ever do. And lastly, fur trapping. BEAVER! There are so many goddamn BEAVER half of the trout steams from twenty years ago in the upper midwest no longer exist. Eat more BEAVER! (and wear their fur, coyotes too).

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Eat more beaver...

FINALLY a slogan I can agree with!

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cjhsa wrote:

Why the hell would it be appropropriate to be against any of those activitiees if they are being performed correctly?

So you are only saying that the HSUS's actions are 'inappropriate'? It seemed like your dismay at their actions was rather stronger than this.

cjhsa wrote:

Dog breeding? I like dogs.

Gary Glitter likes children. Can he breed them for his entertainment?

cjhsa wrote:

Conventional farming? I like to eat.

So does Arthur Shawcross. Would it be inappropriate to set oneself up in opposition to him?

cjhsa wrote:

Rodeos? Those bulls bust people's ass. Horse racing is cruel? Ask the horse, they love to run. Marine aquariums? The Monterey Bay Aquarium has done more for marine life welfare than HSUS will ever do. And lastly, fur trapping. BEAVER! There are so many goddamn BEAVER half of the trout steams from twenty years ago in the upper midwest no longer exist. Eat more BEAVER! (and wear their fur, coyotes too).

Hmmm... perhaps horse racing is not cruel, merely unsafe. Marine aquariums, well they might even involve less suffering than life in the open ocean. I've never had my ass busted by a bull, so I'll have to defer to your experience in that area. As for those pesky beaver (hilarious, and presumably unintentional, double entendre aside) , I'm sure there are people out there who would agree that those who cause ecological devastation should be skinned, but I thought you didn't agree with such domestic terror groups?

But seriously... I know little about the HSUS, so I have a question:

Do you think they are motivated by compassion? If so, and if you believe them to be misinformed on certain issues, should you not be trying to help them, providing them with your expert knowledge and research, and trying to find ways in which their compassion can be more efficiently demonstrated?

I assume that, for example, the HSUS look at the meat industry and see great suffering. Their compassion motivates them to try to lessen this suffering. Is there really anything wrong with acting on compassion?

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My only personal exposure to the Humane society has been receiving two of the most lovable and loyal pets from them. They seemed to provide compassionate care to abandoned animals, and spaying and neutering and adoption of those pets at a reasonable price.

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For anyone who might be interested in the other side of the coin, you can visit the web site of the Humane Society of the United States here.

You can also visit the HSUS page at Charity Navigator here. Charity Navigator-dot-org is a not-for-profit organization which intends to provide information for people to make decisions when contemplating charitable contributions. This is the Charity Navigator mission statement:

Charity Navigator works to guide intelligent giving. We help charitable givers make intelligent giving decisions by providing information on over five thousand charities and by evaluating the financial health of each of these charities. We ensure our evaluations are widely used by making them easy to understand and available to the public free of charge. By guiding intelligent giving, we aim to advance a more efficient and responsive philanthropic marketplace, in which givers and the charities they support work in tandem to overcome our nation's most persistent challenges.

Charity Navigator is a 501 (c) (3) non-profit organization under the Internal Revenue Code and does not accept any contributions from any charities we evaluate.

If you attempt to get an evaluation on the National Rifle Association at Charity Navigator, you get the following message:

We don't evaluate National Rifle Association.

Why not? We don't evaluate 501(c)(4) organizations because they are allowed to spend a substantial portion of their revenue on lobbying our government and not every donation to them is tax-deductible. You may be interested in our evaluation for The NRA Foundation.

The Charity Navigator does rate the NRA Foundation very highly.

The HSUS spends more than 75% of their money on programs. Their fundraising efficiency is given as $0.13, which means they spend 13 cents for every dollar they raise--anyone familiar with charitable organizations and fund-raising for charitable organizations will recognize that this is an extremely low efficiency rating, which means the HSUS is very efficient at raising funds without spending the money raised on the fund-raising process. The fund-raising efficiency of the NRA Foundation is $0.05, which is even more impressive.

In both cases, the efficiency of the fund-raising is likely a product of regular donations by interested parties which do not require the expense of solicitation.

******************************************

This is the second time i've done this research and trotted out the results in response to a rant by Cjhsa. It seems he likes to trot out this obsession now and again, and i will always be happy to point to this information when he does. In case anyone missed the implications, the National Rifle Association was not rated because it is not a charitable organization--the Humane Society of the United States, however, is a charitable organization.

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snood wrote:

My only personal exposure to the Humane society has been receiving two of the most lovable and loyal pets from them. They seemed to provide compassionate care to abandoned animals, and spaying and neutering and adoption of those pets at a reasonable price.

But you unwittiingly fall for the big lie of HSUS. They aren't the Humane Society that you got those pets from, the HSUS operates no animal shelters, and have simply hijacked the name. The loose knit Humane Society has no recourse against this PAC monster.

Snood won't listen to me and just wants to spin the issue, but I urge all of you to visit the HSUS web site and see for yourself their radical animal rights and anti-hunting agenda.

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Goddam man, I have no interest in spinning anything here - you're f*cking insane. I was simply sharing my one experience with anyone going by the name Humane society, and I had no other intentions.

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Setanta wrote:

In case anyone missed the implications, the National Rifle Association was not rated because it is not a charitable organization--the Humane Society of the United States, however, is a charitable organization.

I'm calling bullshit on your website because the HSUS just bought the anti-dove election in Michigan. How that isn't lobbying is beyond comprehension.

The American way of life is under attack from all sides. HSUS is going right for the gut. They've got the little old white women who get bussed to the polls on their side, worried about the doves at the feeder, not realizing who they are siding with.

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snood wrote:

Goddam man, I have no interest in spinning anything here - you're f*cking insane. I was simply sharing my one experience with anyone going by the name Humane society, and I had no other intentions.

Well, that's a first. I'm glad you had a good experience. I have no issues with the Humane Society. HSUS is a different beast altogether. One that deserves a stick in the heart.

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The issue here is not one of humane treatment, but of animal rights activism. On that, I have to side with chjsa. I strongly agree with Dr. Robert Miller, who states that "animals do not have rights; humans have responsibilities". I can't say it better than that. Our local humane society has done everything in its power to distance itself from USHS because they are aware of the extremism inherent in the organization. They're not really PETA, but they are closer to them than to your local animal shelter.

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HSUS
I am familiar with HSUS and would be able to help anyone interested in proof of HSUS activities and policies. HSUS is not an extremist group and has spoken and acted against the tactics that are extremist. HSUS opposes cruelty to animals and humans in many forms and have programs to educate about the issues and to help end practices that are cruel by law as well as encourage reduction of practices that may be considered cruel but that are not illegal. It's always a good thing to investigate before you assume that you are receiving valid information. I can help. Contact [email protected]

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Yeah, right. I bet you sleep with animals.

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So much for "knowing thy enemy"... or knowing anything, for that matter.

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cjhsa wrote:

Yeah, right. I bet you sleep with animals.

Oh my God.

Seriously, I start laughing again everytime I read that... I mean, I've seen cj demonstrate some awesome ripostes before, but I think that was the best one yet, no?

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siwash has one post. Clearly targeted based on HSUS Google searches.

I see BS has returned from vacation. Hope you bathed.

What amazes me is how few here see the wolf in sheep's clothing that HSUS really is.

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Know Thy Enemy

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