Issues with teaching

I have topics to do with testing, licensing, education (mine) as well as all things related to the elementary classroom, but right now I have a potential problem.

Sorry, this is long!

I spend one of my weekdays (part time aid/substitute at a suburban elem. school) as a library runner. Classrooms in k-2 are brought by an adult to the library where they are read to by parent volunteers. Then those volunteers and I help the kids find books to check out for a week. I run 8 classes to and from the library, and help control them while they're there.

Last week, one particularly wild classroom was even wilder due to rain (no recess). We have been working with all classrooms, asking them to behave certain school/library rules. One is no running, one is no loud talking, one is no hiding. I have worked in this classroom as an aid and a sub. I know these kids, and have since the begining of the year. Two or three of the wilder kids have become, in my opinion, farther out of control, and have brought several more kids with them.

When we got to the library, several kids immediately tore through and started hiding. I collected them and sat with them as the parent volunteer read a story to them. I watched L move about a dozen times in that 12 minutes. Fine. But, at each move, she unseated a classmate. One purpose and with intent. She then shoved several of them with her foot and persisted even when I asked her to stop. After the reading I went around and spoke, quietly with each of the kids who had run and hid.

Then I sought out L. I asked if I could speak with her, she ignored me. Didn't make eye contact and ran away. I followed and asked several times. She dodged around a bookcase and I knew I could meet her on the other side. So I did. She tried to dodge around me and I caught her. She looked stunned. I asked her to look at me and I explained what I had to explain to her - do not shove your friends with your feet and do not make them move simply because you want to be in the exact spot which they occupy at the moment. She listened, she nodded, then she went away. I saw later she was in with the parent coordinator for the rest of the visit. Then I remembered: her mother is a volunteer. Sh!t. The coord. and I spoke and I told her what had been happening during the reading.

So, the coordinator who has expressed gratitude to me for months now hates me. L's mother may or may not know what happened. I don't know if there will be ramifications. I'm a little nervous about going in tomorrow and really nervous about my next library day.

What should I have done differently?

probably nothing

most parents don't or won't realise that their kids are little shits

the only problem you could have is the physicality of the situation, nowadays any intervention with kids is risky, but you know that i'm sure

That's my point - parents don't realize how mean their kid might be. So, she'd be livid if she knew and think I was way out of bounds.

I am, indeed, worried about the physical aspect to it.

the fact that the kid was stunned is actually a good sign, she's probably been allowed to get away with crap and may actually gain some insight from the fact that somebody had the nerve to actually confront her about this issue

you may want to follow up with a story session dealing with bullying/peer pressure

I don't know if you should have done anything differently. Children should be expected to follow classroom and school rules whether their parent ( or it sounds as if it might be a friend of the parent) is there or not. Too often children will push the limits when they think they can get away with it, and unfortunately parents often allow this even when in the school setting. This is just wrong. First of all they are doing their own child a disservice, and secondly what kind of message does it sent to the other children?

I don't know what kind of protocol your school has as far as having a teacher with their class. I know in the school I teach in there has to be a certified teacher (or substitute) with the class at all times, not just volunteers. Do you have the option of going to the classroom teacher with this behavior problem? It is likely something that this child has difficulty with in more than just the library.

You also said she tried to dodge around her and you "caught" her. I would be very careful of ever laying a hand on a child unless you have had specific training. Even though you mean no harm, that can open a whole can of worms.

I wish you the best with your teaching career. It is a worthwhile adventure.

She may or may not have a legitimate behavioral problem. No one really speaks up about 'those kids'. There is their privacy to keep. But, it is really hard for me to know how to handle kids. I suppose even if she did have a documented issue, she should still be held accountable to school rules if she is there. Another kid in the class probably has tourettes. It's something like that. I KNOW he can't help his outbursts. I cut him some slack with that. But, even so, he needs to be able to follow most of the rules.

Their teacher is....... well..... I, for one, think she is enabling bad behavior. I think she has allowed her class to become problematic. I hope I never have to sub in there again. Ever. The day I did, two of that class (including L) got booked to spend lunch with the principle the following day (not while they were with me, while they were at lunch).

About the incident. As I remember it, I sort of blocked her. She ran into me. I caught her (in a sort of hug - not with my hands, but my arms). I let go once I knew she was stable on her feet (she really did run into me). I think, next I put my hands on her upper arms and asked her to look at me. I didn't squeeze. But, my voice was deadly serious.

Hates? I doubt that.

"L" was out of bounds--and she knew it. You called her on her behavior--which is part of your job. Kid was out of line--kid was brought back in line. This should be no big deal.

Should you have spoken to "L's" mother? Of course not. "L" was misbehaving in school, not at home.

I expect that all will be well tomorrow. No one expects you to be a seasoned professional right this minute. You spoke to "L" about her behavior which certainly needed discussion.

Let us know how it goes, both tomorrow and for "L's" next library day.

littlek- I probably would have spoken with L's mother-especially if you got the cold shoulder from the volunteer coordinator-giving you the feeling that she had not heard the whole or an entirely true account from L. and would not be recounting an accurate depiction of what actually happened to L's mother.

Parents need to hear about and know how their children behave at school or they can't deal with that behavior. And that's a complaint teachers make about parents all the time, "They think their kid is a little angel." Well, yeah, especially if noone tells them how their kid is acting when they're not around.

I'd call and say something like, "I'm a little concerned that L. may be upset with something that happened in the library today." And then I'd tell her honestly what happened. I wouldn't even mention the fact that you had to have physical contact to stop her running, unless she brings it up (so you know L. had told her). And if she does bring it up, I'd just explain it exactly as you explained it here. I don't think you did anything wrong. If she'd been running and tripped and hit her head on the corner of a bookcase, someone would have then asked you why you were allowing them to run in the library.

Maybe her teacher could tell L. that if she can't behave appropriately in the library, someone will have to bring her a book to read in the classroom while everyone else goes to the library. She (the teacher) should definitely have some protocol in place for this kind of behavior from anyone in the class.

Don't worry too much about it- you didn't do anything wrong- and even if people are unreasonable (L. and her mother and anyone else who gets involved) I'd just ask them how they would have dealt with it, let them know you were worried about her safety and that you did what you thought best, but you're open to other ideas if they have any. They'll probably just be speechless after that because I'm sure they won't be able to come up with anything very different than what you did.

It's an entirely different matter, dealing with 25+ children in a classroom, compared to the type of relationship dynamics parents experience with their own children at home. I sometimes become a wee bit frustrated when some parents don't "get" it: that their children can't behave exactly the same in a communal situation like a classroom (& be treated exactly the same, too) as they would be at home with their family.

That makes sense, msolga.

It really sounds to me like you handled it the way it needed to be handled, and with precious little support. I mean, no way that behavior is OK. What especially struck me from what you said is how the rest of the class is being dragged down by the troublemakers. Those troublemakers need to be dealt with.

I understand that your own power is very limited there, though. I mean I think of all kinds of things the teacher should do to gain control, but (even if she isn't already doing them), I know it's not really your role to provide that kind of feedback and could make things hairier.

At any rate, I don't think you should worry about what happened.

Interested in finding out how things went today.

I've been paranoid, perhaps. I keep feeling like suddenly everyone stopped speaking to me. I guess people are busy. THAT library day was last wednesday. I didn't work friday (holiday) and don't start my week until tuesday. (I do pick up my niece there on my days off).

Tuesday I was the art teacher (this being a different person everyday, teaching different subjects and different grade levels is hard!). I ran into L in the hall. She smiled (genuinely) at me and mossied on. <phew>. The art room is very close to the library and her mother was in there. I avoided the place at all costs.

Today, I subbed in kindergarten and was off my library duty. I was relieved. But, at the end of the day, the coordinator saw me and smiled big and said hello. So.

I guess everyone has their good days and bad. I know I made the coord uncomfortable. But, not so much. I dunno if anyone spoke to anyone else about it.

I guess my biggest concern is the physicalness of it. I feel no qualms about giving L a lecture and rocking her world. I do feel badly that I made her run into me.

Littlek--

"L" shouldn't have been running in the first place.

"L" knows this. She bears you no ill will.

Look, I promise that on November 27, 2078, you will attain perfection and get seven gold stars from the president in honor of your achievement.
You may or may not ascend bodily into heaven.

Hold your dominion.

You're probably right, k, they could well be very busy.
I know there are some days at work when I hardly have the time to scratch myself. You get used to this frantic state of affairs over time, but when you're new (as you are) it can be baffling wondering how come people who were so friendly & helpful a short while ago suddenly seem to have no time for you. They're probably onto job 5 in the list of 12 Urgent Things that needed to be done yesterday! At my school people in my office are so flat-out & tired right now that we seem to hardly ever have a decent conversation.

Anyway, it sounds like you like the work & find it quite challenging & stimulating. That's the main thing.

I'm in the middle of my math course. WHat fun! Too tired to make much explanation.

One of my complaints is with kids who are allowed to make too many decisions on their own, like L. Its the inmates running the asylum.

Seems that mainstream thought on child rearing and education swings like a pendulum. But unlike the pendulum which lessens the distance of each swing, the thinking on issues of childhood don't lessen, they just change direction.

Does that make sense?

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I feel like I am drowning:
~ I had my first math class the weekend before thanksgiving and was given a ridiculous work load to complete by the next time we meet (in about 2 weeks).
~ My dad informed us just before t-giving that he has a significant blockage in an artery to his heart. I'll be driving back down thursday.
~ HM#3 confronted Dag (and then me) about us bitching about him and wants to talk for hours about it (it's already been 3 hours and the 'house meeting' hasn't even adjourned).
~ I can't communicate with work and I need to.

These things aren't even registering as priorities:
~ The heat isn't on (it's 59º in the house).
~ I have no money in the bank.
~ My car insurance is due this month
~ I still haven't gotten to the dentist.
~ I have stomach pains and "dire rear".

But, alas, I will be working tomorrow and thank god in a class which I like (and they like me).

How do teachers do it?

I don't know, k.
At great personal cost, sometimes?
I think I'm about to take a wee break from teaching.

Best of luck in coping with your heavy load of demands!

Did anything come of the big meeting with HM#3?

I'd have to agree with "great personal cost." I mean if it's in a wonderful school environment with a lot of support it can really be worth it -- I'm watching my kid's kindergarten teacher (first year) and she seems to be doing really well. I'm really impressed with this school.

But when I was student teaching -- ugh. Really sucked, and really turned me off teaching. I might go back to it, but only at a place that seems functional.

Meanwhile, much sympathy and support, it doesn't get much harder than your current situation (taking classes AND teaching as a sub...)

Aaaaarrrgggghhhhh.


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It'll get better.