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German UN-force navy vessel and two Israeli F-16s clashed

 
 
Reply Wed 25 Oct, 2006 11:29 am
Quote:
Israeli jets clash with German ship near Lebanon
Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:24 PM ET

BERLIN (Reuters) - Two Israeli warplanes and a German navy vessel have clashed off the Lebanese coast, the Defense Ministry in Berlin said on Wednesday without giving further details.

Germany daily Der Tagesspiegel earlier on Wednesday quoted a junior German defense minister as telling a parliamentary committee that two Israeli F-16 fighters flew low over the German ship and fired two shots.

The jets also released infra-red countermeasures to ward off any rocket attack, the paper quoted him as saying.

The minister did not say when the incident happened or what had caused it, the paper said.

"I can confirm that there was an incident," a ministry spokesman told Reuters on Wednesday. An investigation was underway and he therefore was unable to provide further information, he added.

An Israeli military spokeswoman said she was checking the report.

Germany assumed command of a United Nations naval force off the coast of Lebanon 10 days ago and has sent a force of eight ships and 1,000 service personnel to join the international peace operation in the region.

The naval force is charged with preventing weapons smuggling and helping maintain a ceasefire between Israel and radical Lebanese-based Islamic group Hezbollah.
Source
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 770 • Replies: 18
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Oct, 2006 11:38 am
In total 2.400 German naval soldiers are part of UNIFIL, btw.

http://i14.tinypic.com/48oyus9.jpg
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Oct, 2006 12:10 pm
bookmark
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Oct, 2006 01:17 pm
Quote:
JERUSALEM, Oct 25 (Reuters) - Israel on Wednesday denied a German newspaper report that two Israeli air force planes flew over a German navy vessel patrolling Lebanon's coast, fired twice and activated anti-missile countermeasures.

"There was no such incident," an Israeli military spokeswoman said.

Der Tagesspiegel daily quoted a German junior defence minister as telling a parliamentary panel about the incident, without saying when or why it had happened. Germany's Defence Ministry confirmed the incident took place but did not give details.
Source
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Oct, 2006 02:23 pm
Quote:
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel denied a German newspaper report on Wednesday that two of its air force planes had fired twice as they flew over a German navy vessel patrolling the Lebanon coast.

However, Germany's Defence Ministry said an incident had occurred, without giving details.


The German daily Der Tagesspiegel quoted a German junior defence minister as telling a parliamentary committee two Israeli F-16 fighters had flown low over the ship, firing twice.


The jets also activated infra-red countermeasures to ward off any rocket attack, the paper quoted him as saying, in an advance release from Thursday's edition.


"There was no such incident," an Israeli military spokeswoman said.

Germany assumed command of a United Nations naval force off Lebanon 10 days ago, and has sent eight ships and 1,000 service personnel to join the international peace operation in the region.

The naval force is charged with preventing weapons smuggling and helping maintain a cease-fire between Israel and the Lebanese Islamic militant group Hezbollah.

"I can confirm that there was an incident," a German defence ministry spokesman said on Wednesday. He declined to give further details because an investigation was underway.

Israel's Channel Two television, quoting military sources, described one undated incident where jets had been scrambled when a helicopter took off from a German aircraft carrier close to Israeli waters without identifying itself.

The planes realised the mistake, did not engage the helicopter and returned home, Channel Two said.

In another incident described by the television station, jets deployed anti-missile chaff off the Lebanese coast. This may have been detected by the German navy, Channel Two said.
Source
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Oct, 2006 04:54 am
According to information given today in the German parliament (Bundestag), six Israeli F-16 fighters fired shots as well as defensive flares while flying low over the German vessel off the Lebanese coast.



http://i14.tinypic.com/3yx2d82.jpg
Photos via Israelian tv-stations
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Oct, 2006 05:17 am
Interesting reading on the blogs of the various Israelian newspapers.

Especially, when the poster claim to be Americans, like e.g. "Erik - USA" on the Jerusalem Post's blog:
Quote:
German are surprised with a quick IAF response and felt that they are being monitored.
Nice try, Germans, but I would love to see one of your ships in smoke as a lesson not to insult Israel.
Source
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Oct, 2006 05:42 am
blimey.
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Oct, 2006 05:46 am
Can't Israel just admit it happened and apologize? Rolling Eyes

They are peace keeping forces, long removed from their German history. It's not as if they would make it up. right? Is that the implication from the bloggers, that the UN forces are making it up cause they are German?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Oct, 2006 06:47 am
It's just an anti-German and pro-Israel sentiment, I suppose.

We can't obviously live without being remembered to our past.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Oct, 2006 07:36 am
Indeed. This is a sticky situation. I think Israel should just admit that it happened and apologize, as squinney said. I hope it was just a misunderstanding.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Oct, 2006 09:27 am
Is this an indication of the direction the Israeli people and government is taking? If so this could mean more trouble and warfare in the future.

Quote:
World silent as fascists join Israel government
Ali Abunimah, The Electronic Intifada
24 October 2006

In a frightening but long expected move, Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert has brought the Yisrael Beitenu party into his coalition government. The party's leader, Avigdor Lieberman, is to be vice prime minister and, as "Minister for Strategic Threats," a key member of Israel's "security cabinet" in charge of the Iran portfolio.

Yisrael Beitenu is a dangerous extremist party with fascist tendencies that has openly advocated the "transfer" of Palestinians, including the transfer of Arab towns within Israel to a Bantustan-like future Palestinian entity. It has made clear that a Jewish supremacist state is more important than a democratic one. The party, whose strongest base is among Russian immigrants brought to Israel in the 1990s, surged at the Israeli election earlier this year, taking eleven seats in Israel's 120 seat Knesset.

Last summer, Israel launched a disastrous war of destruction against Lebanon, and continues its siege and onslaught against Palestinians in the occupied territories which has killed nearly three hundred people in three months and left hundreds of thousands without sufficient food, water and electricity. Lieberman has advocated even more harsh and criminal measures against the Palestinians and Israel's neighbors.

It is dismaying that the European Union, a key international actor, seems set to maintain warm, normal relations with this extremist government, thus giving it encouragement and legitimacy.

"You will understand that we cannot interfere with the setting up of a foreign government. This is a matter for which the concerned State alone is responsible," wrote Cristina Gallach, the official spokesperson for Javier Solana, the EU High Representative for foreign policy, in an email responding to a query about whether the EU would impose sanctions on Israel if Yisrael Beitenu joined the government.

Gallach added that "We think that both Israel and the Palestinians are aware of the responsibility they have in creating the favorable conditions for reactivating the Peace Process with the ultimate goal of having two States living side by side in peace and security." Other than such bland and cynical platitudes, Solana's spokesperson offered no hint of EU concern about the horrifying political developments within Israel that are certain to bring about further violence, escalation and needless suffering.

In an interview with an Israeli newspaper in September, Yisrael Beitenu leader Lieberman said: "The vision I would like to see here is the entrenching of the Jewish and the Zionist state...I very much favour democracy, but when there is a contradiction between democratic and Jewish values, the Jewish and Zionist values are more important." (Scotsman, October 23, 2006)

In addition to espousing ethnic cleansing, Lieberman has a long history of inciting discrimination, hatred and violence against Palestinians within the Jewish state and living under Israeli military occupation in East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza Strip. When he served as minister of transport in a previous government, Lieberman called for all Palestinian prisoners held by the Israeli occupation authorities to be drowned in the Dead Sea and offered to provide the buses ("Lieberman blasted for suggesting drowning Palestinian prisoners," Ha'aretz, July 11, 2002). He has proposed to strip the citizenship of, and expel any Palestinian citizen of Israel who refuses to sign a loyalty oath to the Jewish Zionist state ("A Jewish demographic state," Ha'aretz, June 28, 2002).

In 2002, Lieberman declared, "I would not hesitate to send the Israeli army into all of Area A [the area of the West Bank ostensibly under Palestinian Authority control] for 48 hours. Destroy the foundation of all the authority's military infrastructure, all of the police buildings, the arsenals, all the posts of the security forces... not leave one stone on another. Destroy everything." He also suggested to the Israeli cabinet that the air force systematically bomb all the commercial centers, gas stations and banks in the occupied territories (The Independent, March 7, 2002). And, he has proposed bombing Egypt's Aswan Dam, despite that country's peace treaty with Israel since 1979. What will he propose to do to Iran?

Hebrew University professor Ze'ev Sternhell, a leading Israeli academic specialist on fascism and totalitarianism, was quoted by the Scotsman newspaper as terming Lieberman "perhaps the most dangerous politician in the history of the state of Israel."
I would not hesitate to send the Israeli army into all of Area A for 48 hours. Destroy the foundation of all the [Palestinian] authority's military infrastructure, all of the police buildings, the arsenals, all the posts of the security forces... not leave one stone on another. Destroy everything.

Urgent action is needed to stem the growing threat to international peace and security that Israel presents. Rather than do anything of the kind, the office of the EU High Representative has set a new low standard, offering only appeasement and accommodation for Israeli extremism and apartheid. The claim that the EU does not interfere in the internal affairs of foreign governments is just a fig leaf for political cowardice and unwillingness to stand up to Israel or its backers; it is not remotely consistent with past or present practice in other cases.

Most glaringly, since Palestinians under occupation elected Hamas to lead the Palestinian Authority last January, in the Arab world's most free election ever, the EU has interfered in their affairs in the most irresponsible manner, imposing a total siege and cut off of aid that has directly penalized the Palestinian population, causing widespread hunger and deprivation. This siege is explicitly intended to force the Hamas-led authority to abandon the platform on which it was elected, or to force it out of office completely. (The EU claims it wants Hamas to recognize Israel and end violence, even though Hamas has observed a 22-month one-sided truce, halting attacks on Israel, and its leaders have issued repeated statements in favor of reaching a long-term agreement with Israel on the basis of equality and mutual, not one-sided, recognition.) The European Union, under Solana's personal stewardship, orchestrated this gross interference in the development of Palestinian democracy and punishment of those who tried to practice it.

And in 2000, EU countries took the unprecedented measure of imposing diplomatic sanctions on one of their own member states, Austria, after the far-right Freedom Party joined the government following elections. Although many voices criticized the EU for meddling in the internal affairs of a democratic country, one of the most vocal supporters of the sanctions was none other than Javier Solana, who on that occasion declared "I think Europe has given a very good example of how in important things -- things that have to go with principles, with values -- there's no possibility of compromise." ("Sanctions hit Austria," Reuters, February 4, 2000).

But when it comes to EU member states discharging their responsibilities to hold Israel accountable for its escalating violations of the EU-Israel Association Agreement, the Fourth Geneva Convention, numerous UN Security Council Resolutions, and basic human decency, the principles that Solana and many powerful others are so proud to boast of are nowhere to be found.

In this moral and political vacuum, it is ever more urgent to heed the call of Palestinian civil society to join the growing global campaign of boycott, divestment and sanctions.

Ali Abunimah is co-founder of The Electronic Intifada and author of "One Country - A Bold Proposal to End the Israeli-Palestinian Impasse" (Metropolitan Books, 2006)


Quote:
Popularity poll
In a poll published by Yediot Achronot on September 21, 2006, Lieberman had more support than any other politician except for Netanyahu to be the next Prime Minister of Israel. Olmert came in fifth with 7%.[5]

SOURCE
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Oct, 2006 09:54 am
Quote:
BERLIN (AFP) - The German defence ministry has called for smooth cooperation between Israel and its ships patrolling the Lebanese coast after Israeli planes fired shots over a German vessel.

"The (defence) ministers have spoken to each other several times and discussed the incident," defence ministry spokesman Thomas Raabe told AFP on Thursday.

"We hope that in the future everything will be smooth, that there will be good cooperation," he added.

The German military has said two Israeli F-16 fighters flew low over a German ship off the Lebanese coast on Tuesday and fired shots and anti-missile defence flares.

"Shots were fired by Israeli planes. It is under investigation," a spokesman said.

Israeli Defence Minister Amir Peretz has denied that the planes had fired at the German forces.

The German ships are heading the naval component of the UN peace mission in Lebanon which is meant to prevent arms being smuggled to Hezbollah by sea.

France and the United Nations have accused Israel of endangering the multinational mission by sending its fighter planes into Lebanese territory.

But Peretz has said Israel would continue the overflights because the Lebanese government had failed to block the flow of arms to the Hezbollah militia in Lebanon.

Germany has refused to send ground troops to the region in a bid to avoid confrontation with Jewish soldiers because of lingering sensitivies about the Holocaust.
Source
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Oct, 2006 10:41 am
Holy ****.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Oct, 2006 11:55 am
dpa - Deutsche Presse-Agentur/German Press Agency reports:

Quote:
Oct 26, 2006, 19:00 GMT

Tel Aviv - Israel will continue to fly over Lebanese territory, Defence Minister Amir Peretz said Thursday, two days after Israeli planes buzzed a German naval vessel close to the Israel- Lebanon border.

Meeting with European Union foreign policy chief Javier Solana, Peretz said that the Israeli flights over Lebanon would continue so long as two Israeli soldiers snatched by Lebanese Hezbollah guerrillas were not released, and so long as there was no organized supervision of the Syrian-Lebanon border.
[...]
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2006 02:30 pm
As far as is known by now, it wasn't a German UNIFIL-ship but one, which "helped" that unit, namely the espionage ship "Alster"

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,726898,00.jpg

And all this happened in international waters, about 40 sm away from the Israelian_Lebanon sea boundries.

The Israelian say now, this might have happened during a sea exercise of their airforce and have been misinterprtated by the Germans.


Since it's an espionage ship, however, they made video tapes ....
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Oct, 2006 02:23 am
The following report sums all the latest informartion up:

Quote:
German MPs demand explanation for clash with Israel

28/10/2006 10:37:00 AM

Members of the German parliamentary opposition demanded on Friday an explanation for what was described as a confrontation between Israeli jets and a German intelligence warship off Lebanon's coast.
Defense Ministry spokesman Thomas Raabe said an unarmed intelligence vessel called the Alster, carrying highly sophisticated listening equipment, was 50 nautical miles (about 90 kilometers) off the coast in international waters when six Israeli F-16s flew over the ship and fired above it.
The unarmed ship was part of efforts to protect the UN Interim Forces in Lebanon (UNIFIL) naval component, Raabe said, noting that Israeli vessels had been hit with missiles during fighting with Hizbullah.
Birgit Homburger, of the opposition Free Democrats, asked the government to announce what German troops would do if the incident recurred.
The Free Democrats opposed Germany's naval deployment with the expanded UNIFIL because of concerns it could lead to a confrontation between German troops and Israeli forces, a sensitive issue given Nazi Germany's role in perpetrating the Holocaust during World War II.
The German newspaper Tagesspiegel reported Friday that the 83-meter-Alster was a reconnaissance and intelligence-gathering vessel not listed as part of the UNIFIL flotilla sent to prevent weapons smuggling off the coast of Lebanon as part of the expanded UNIFIL peacekeeping force.
Asked what the motive for the jets' overflight was, Raabe said: "I don't want to speculate. I don't think there is a serious background." He added that Israel had high security needs given the situation in the Middle East.
He wouldn't say how Israel explained the incident to Germany's government.
A German Armed Forces spokesman in Berlin had told The Daily Star Thursday that the German warship "is part of the German contingent task force which is currently dispatched in Lebanon," but it "was outside the Lebanese territorial waters" at the time of the incident.
However, the German warship "was not flying the UN flag" at the time, a source working closely with UNIFIL told The Daily Star on Thursday.
Germany assumed command of the UN naval force off Lebanon 12 days ago, and has sent eight ships and some 1,000 personnel to join UNIFIL.
The naval force is charged with preventing the smuggling of weapons and helping maintain a cease-fire between Israel and Hizbullah.
German officials have said they are looking into an incident in which two shots were fired in the air near the vessel. The Israelis have issued a statement saying the planes approached a helicopter after it took off Tuesday from a German ship without notifying Israeli forces. The Israelis denied shots were fired.
But a German Air Force spokesman confirmed that one of six Israeli F-16 fighters had fired on the German vessel.
He said: "According to our information, at 10:11 a.m. Tuesday, six Israeli F-16 [fighter-bombers] flew low-level over the German warship. They fired several flares, the kind used [to defeat heat-seeking missiles], and one of the F-16s fired two shots from its gun [over] the German ship, but it didn't hit the ship."
The incident has reminded some observers of Israel's June 8, 1967, attack on a US Navy intelligence vessel, the USS Liberty. As Israeli forces battled those of Egypt, Jordan and Syria in the 1967 war, the Liberty was struck repeatedly by Israeli fighter-bombers and torpedo boats. Some 34 American servicemen lost their lives, and 173 were wounded.
Israel said later that its sailors and airmen misidentified the Liberty as an Egyptian horse carrier. Many of the survivors still insist that they were deliberately attacked because the Israelis suspected the Liberty had intercepted radio transmissions proving Israel was negotiating a cease-fire in bad faith and/or that its soldiers had committed atrocities against Egyptian prisoners. They also complain that they have been subjected to a cover-up by their own government. - Agencies
Source
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Oct, 2006 01:48 pm
After a second incident this week - now between a German UN-helicopter and the Israelian airforce - today (Sunday) PM Olmert has ordered that such should never happen again.

He confirmed this in a phone call to the German chancellor tonight.
0 Replies
 
Paaskynen
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2006 12:23 am
This is no isolated incident but part of a pattern of blatant Israeli disregard for the UN. The Netherlands, once Israels closest ally withdrew its UNIFIL force from Lebanon after their experiences with Israeli respect for the UN during the 1981 invasion.
Finland has had UNIFIL troops in the south of Lebanon for a long time too. When the French asked for guarantees that they can defend themselves with force (implicity in case of Israeli attack) before going in to the Lebanon, the Finnish TV showed a clip made up of shots of Israeli politicians declaring their respect for the UN interspersed with shots made by Finnish soldiers showing Israeli tanks ramming Finnish UN armoured cars and pushing them off the road and giving the finger and Israelis shelling UN observation posts, etc.
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